All things Solar (merged threads)

[xisled]

Speaking to one of my friends today about the changes that they are trying to get into the Victorian electricity industry.

A big one is that in the next couple years you maybe able to change your distributor as we as your retailer. This would make it very interesting as well as complicated.

[poppa smurf]

caught a little bit of the news last night.....there was talk of "micro power stations" possibly nuclear.

anyone know anything or heard anything about this.......first I'd heard of it.

[poppa smurf]

little bit of light reading to ponder that I stumbled across


South Australia signalling the end of base-load generation
By Giles Parkinson, www.reneweconomy.com.au

Last Tuesday marked the three-month anniversary of the closure of the last coal-fired ‘base-load generator’ in the South Australia electricity market, and despite the best efforts of many in the Coalition and the Murdoch media, there is nothing to suggest that other states will not follow suit, in time.

The fossil fuel industry predicted – and possibly hoped for – ‘armageddon’ from the closure of the last coal plant. But all it got was a big jump in wholesale electricity prices, caused not by renewable energy, as federal and local energy ministers have made clear, but by the soaring cost of gas and constraints on the interconnecter.

If anything, the events of the last few weeks have reinforced the point that the electricity market is in the early stages of an unstoppable transition. Coal-fired plants will soon be a thing of the past, and the role of gas-fired generators may all diminish as battery storage and other renewables take more central roles.

The announcement by AGL on Friday of its plans – supported by the South Australian government and the Australian Renewable Energy Agency – for an array of 1,000 batteries in homes and businesses to create a ‘virtual power plant’ to address demand peaks and grid stability, is a foretaste of what is to come.

Indeed, South Australia’s experiment – as premier Jay Weatherill has described it – in pursuing the world’ highest level of wind and solar generation is rapidly evolving into a whole bunch of world-leading projects.

These include AGL’s (described the world’s biggest virtual power plant), South Australia Power Networks’ commitment to a second ‘world leading’ battery storage project that will likely reduce the need for grid investment, and various proposals for large-scale solar with storage (from SolarReserve, Lyon Infrastructure and others) and the creation of suburban and remote town micro-grids that will reduce the need for centralised power and distribution.

The withdrawal of base-load coal generation from the South Australian grid has sparked predictions of economic collapse and soaring prices, but these have simply replicated what used to happen when the state relied entirely on gas for the balance on power, even before the arrival of wind and solar.

The fact that AGL and SAPN are now tapping into the power systems of households and businesses to address the high cost of peaking power and network upgrades is going to help change the way people think about electricity – and pave the way for more renewable energy across the country, according to the Clean Energy Council.

‘What we are seeing is a glimpse of the future as it comes into view over the horizon,’ CEC’s chief executive Kane Thornton says. ‘It is still early days for energy storage technology in Australia, but the idea that we can run a modern society with an affordable, zero-emission power system is gradually becoming reality.’

The graphs included in a presentation by the Australian Energy Market Operator at last month’s Clean Energy Summit illustrate why ‘base-load’ will no longer be needed in South Australia, and why it will be replaced by more renewable energy, and more ‘dispatchable’ generation facilitated by battery and molten salt storage.

The first is the AEMO depiction of the average day in South Australia. Note how the middle of the day – when fossil fuel generators traditionally made most of their money – has been hollowed out by the presence of rooftop solar.

south-australia-average-demandAverage demand has been reduced by 400MW in the middle of the day – energy efficiency has also helped. The main peak has been pushed back into the evening, and its size reduced. Another peak later in the night reflects the load for controlled hot water systems.

This was created to give the Northern and Playford coal-fired power stations ‘something to power’ during the night, but since their closure this demand peak will be removed as the hot water demand is shifted into the ‘solar sponge’ in the middle of the day, as is already happening in Queensland.

This next graph, illustrates why that – and the battery storage trials being conducted by AGL and South Australia Power Networks – are so important.

south-australia-minimum-demandWithin a few years, AEMO predicts, minimum demand in south Australia will fall to near zero, thanks to the proliferation of rooftop solar on households and businesses. By 2026, it suggest, minimum demand will fall into negative territory. This will not happen at night time but in the middle of the day.

Hence the need to store electricity. Hence AGL and SAPN’s trials to shift some of that demand into the day-time and shift some of that solar power in the evening and to deal with unexpected peaks and interruption.

And hence the continued calls for South Australian and federal governments to make good on their promise for solar thermal and storage systems in Port Augusta. A solar tower of the type built by SolarReserve in Nevada and proposed for South Australia could provide power on demand, says the Repower Port Augusta residents group.

In Nevada, the ground breaking plant supplies La Vegas between midday and midnight. In south Australia, it could be calibrated for the needs of the local grid.

Hence, too, the growing interest in storage in other large scale solar projects. Lyon Infrastructure is proposing the world’s largest solar and storage project in the north of the state, on the big line linking Olympic Dam with the rest of the grid.

DP Energy is proposing a solar-wind hybrid that it says will target South Australia’ early evening peaks (due to the nature of the wind resource), and is also considering pumped hydro or battery storage to help it firm up demand.

‘Once we encourage more renewables around the grid – I’d be very worried if I was a base-load generator,’ DP Energy’s David Blake told RenewEconomy.

‘We are in a transition. nothing is going to stop it. I would tend to think that batteries and big solar are going to become the dominant force in the Australian market.’

[Mercury Bullet]

All they need to do now is pay us appropriately for all the power they are currently stealing from us.

[poppa smurf]

yes they keep "encouraging" us then smack us when we do......but if they shut down the coal fired plants as they say is going to happen then what.

[prydey]

So.... No mention of all the dirty power we currently buy off Victoria!

I wonder what would happen if all those with solar systems who currently get no FIT, turned them off for a week or two, what effect that would have on the grid??

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by prydey

So.... No mention of all the dirty power we currently buy off Victoria!

I wonder what would happen if all those with solar systems who currently get no FIT, turned them off for a week or two, what effect that would have on the grid??

pandemonium, it will go back to what used to be a regular occurrence throughout South Australia and Victoria, rolling blackouts running rampant once again......Vics. have forgotten about those.

the generators have it in the pipeline that what is occurring in South Australia now is Victoria and NSW's future

[prydey]

to me it should be a federal issue. i don't see the need for one state in one of the smallest islands on the globe, to be some sort of world leader with renewable energy targets.

if australia wants to set targets, and try to reach those targets, then the federal govt should be subsidising the whole shebang, not leaving each state to their own devices, and being funded by the home owner in each state. we are one country after all are we not? it doesn't make sense why one state should be paying such a substantial sum more than the others in electricity costs, esp if other states are eventually going to go down the same path.

currently, wind and solar just don't cut it. they often use more than they produce and are at the mercy of the elements. just sick of living in the guinea pig state, just so some politician can make some grand statement about how 'green' we are while ignoring many of the facts.

[ebxr8240]

I have 5KW system .. I think if we changed our lifestyle a little solar would save us heaps..if cooking was done earlier in day as well as hot water usage.. Im yet to fit solar hot water .. Must adjust hot water timer to switch ON through the day.. Off at night .. Do notice they provide no discount in off peak !! So we'll work around there tariffs..Other wise we are being rapped by the suppliers.. Mrs dsoesnt wash the dishes now late at night.. They are left till the morning when suns up..

[Mowdit]

Hey Poppa Smurf

Got a match ?

Joking, but i hope ya beer is still cold today

Let us all know exactly how long 5he power has been out for (again)

Am really hoping the other state/territory govs dont ***** us all over like SA

[Mooka]

If only Poppa had solar battery with emergency power back up.

Imagine being the cool kid on the street with tv and lights on 😂

[prydey]

Relying on the sun and wind worked real well here in SA. Idiots. I hope Rann and co. still have no power for getting us in this mess. The rest of the country was already smiling at us, now they are laughing!

[LG17]

Originally Posted by prydey

Relying on the sun and wind worked real well here in SA. Idiots. I hope Rann and co. still have no power for getting us in this mess. The rest of the country was already smiling at us, now they are laughing!

I'm not sure what role the sun played in the storms but how about that wind blowing all those transmission towers over! Not very social of it... ;)

[lgpking22]

it was nothing to do with renewable energy

[prydey]

whatever. with so much invested and at stake, no one is going to come out and say anything different.

of course it was a catastrophic weather event.

it has highlighted a massive issue with SA's power though, and reports are surfacing that predicted something like this could happen months ago.

why shut down/decommission 'dirty' power stations, and then buy it from interstate, which is just coming from 'dirty' power stations.

the targets are unrealistic. its not rocket science.

[lgpking22]

Just before the blackout occurred, windfarms were producing about half the state’s electricity demand – they were not shut down as a result of the high winds. And ElectraNet, the owner of the downed high-voltage lines, made clear the blackout was caused by the storm damage to their network.





If the recently closed Port Augusta coal power station was still operating, it would have been cut off by the downed distribution lines too. And that would have likely made the disruption worse, since it would have created an even bigger sudden change to the network.

[Mowdit]

Doesn't matter what state you blow over a few transmission towers, you are going to lose a chunk of that states power in the short term.

And for our "idiot in charge" to come out saying we need "energy security" is a joke !

I don't see too many electric tractors or trucks, you know those things we need to grow crops and transport food products to the masses, let alone ambulances and emergency services, YET we largely rely on imported fuel (particularly NSW) since the closing of refining

I'd sooner go without electricity than diesel/petrol

[Mowdit]

Here's anothere good one for you.

Reviewing/monitoring my 5kw set up yesterday, sunny and 30 deg in sydney.

Discovered that my off peak water heater is wired and metered direct from mains supply.

So if i turn it on to "top up) during a sunny day i am not using my solar generated power, but am paying 25c a kw whilst exporting for 6c

[CJR09]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

Here's anothere good one for you.

Reviewing/monitoring my 5kw set up yesterday, sunny and 30 deg in sydney.

Discovered that my off peak water heater is wired and metered direct from mains supply.

So if i turn it on to "top up) during a sunny day i am not using my solar generated power, but am paying 25c a kw whilst exporting for 6c

That really sucks - you would think someone might have pointed this out to you upon install? surely this is just as simple as changing the feed supply circuit to the same as what the solar is feeding through?

[Mowdit]

Originally Posted by CJR09

That really sucks - you would think someone might have pointed this out to you upon install?

Seems it's the whole "cake & eat it too" attitude

Unfortunately the line to the off peak meter comes out of one of the main fuses, the ones with "the tamper proof lock ties"
(like that ever stopped someone "jacking" power to crop out a house )

Will be asking a "registered electrician" shortly if it is possible to legally change it so that it uses solar power as well as grid power

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Received this publication in the mail yesterday.

I understand the reason for it and how to go about it, but why is it I am only hearing about this requirement now, after two years of ownership and operation? Surely this should be something that all new owners are advised when the solar is connected (ie meter installed) by Ausnet Services?

How many on here actually do this and keep a record of it?

[xisled]

In Victoria a solar installer needs to complete solar paperwork to have the meter installed by the retailer.

About 2 years or so ago, Ausnet services decided that they wanted to be different to all the other 4 distrubtors and instead of installers completing a photovoltaic solar generator connection form they wanted a completely different form to be completed. This new form had the anti island testing info on it.

So the reason you probably didn't know about it was due to the new requirements only coming in, in the last couple years and after your system was installed.

My guess if you are not in Victoria or not on the Ausnet services area you will not recieve nothing about the anti island test.

[Iggle Piggle]

So is this the best place to ask who is the current hotness in terms of supplying/fitting solar and also retailer?

Looking at buying an established 4 bedroom house in Adelaide that currently has no solar (built 2003). It's got natural gas instant hot water, central heating, cooktop and oven - everything else is electric.

What's the go, or is there a decent comparison site I should visit?

[Mowdit]

Google is your friend
Spend some time reading and make lots of notes to do comparisons
Lots of us have gone to micro inverters now

Maybe Poppa Smurf will pop up with some advice, as he is from SA

[BENT_8]

Poppa hasnt been around since the big storm and blackout last month, i think he's still waiting for the grid to come back online way up there....

[Rs31markie]

Hi, finally decided on a system and going to get a 6kw system with micro inverters, hopefully being fitted in the next few weeks.

[LG17]

The new updated Powerwall could turn out to be interesting. Apparently it also has a built-in Inverter now.

[hawke]

We have just upgraded our system, a 3.3kW panels with their own inverters. Since they have been installed, several electrical items have failed in our house. A controller for the fridge, and a capacitor for a roof fan.

My question is, is the quality of power produced by solar panels and inverters satisfactory. For example is the voltage, frequency and shape of the sine wave comparable to mains power?

[Mercury Bullet]

Surely the inverters have to be approved by the power provider if they are getting connected to the grid?

[Pepscobra]

Originally Posted by hawke

We have just upgraded our system, a 3.3kW panels with their own inverters. Since they have been installed, several electrical items have failed in our house. A controller for the fridge, and a capacitor for a roof fan.

My question is, is the quality of power produced by solar panels and inverters satisfactory. For example is the voltage, frequency and shape of the sine wave comparable to mains power?

What inverter has been installed?
Its the inverters job to convert the solar power to 240V.
If you've got a Fronius, Bosch, etc, then shouldn't be an issue.