LR vs LS power to weight?

[Pieoter]

I use Cartest for the simulation. You input the power and torque and it automatically creates a torque and power curve or you can do it yourself too. It takes alot of factors into consideration such a Friction of tyres, clutch grip, gearing etc.

Still wanna give the fez a go but next week is not good for me. The fez is in for "regular" maintenance.

[mitch_lx]

Originally Posted by Pieoter

Still wanna give the fez a go but next week is not good for me. The fez is in for "regular" maintenance.

Liar...

[Fast Eddie]

Keep us informed and I might give me 'chair a go down the 400m!!

[melbzetec]

Here are the figures I've been trying to find.


LR Focus vs. LS Focus

Bore (mm) 84.8 vs. 87.5
Capacity (cm3) 1988 vs. 1999
Compression ratio 10.0:1 vs. 10.8:1

Maximum power 96kW @ 5500rpm vs. 107kW @ 6000rpm
Maximum torque 178Nm @ 4500rpm vs. 185Nm @ 4500rpm
Stroke (mm) 88.0 vs. 83.1


Ratio 1 3.417:1 vs. 3.40:1
Ratio 2 2.136:1 vs. 2.14:1
Ratio 3 1.448:1 vs. 1.45:1
Ratio 4 1.028:1 vs. 1.03:1
Ratio 5 0.767:1 vs. 0.80:1



Bore and stroke are quite different (LR smaller bore, longer stroke)

More torque for LS

Gear ratios close but different

Now, all we need is someone who understands what those differences actually mean in a practical sense!!!!

Would love to know

Anyone have the final drive ratio, and the rolling diameter?

Just on the engines, the Duratec has an "oversquare" engine, where the bore (piston dia) is greater than the stroke (rod length). This means that there is less friction and a stronger crankshaft. Whats interesting is that the Duratec has a higher compression ratio compared to the Zetec, where the Zetec should have a higher compression ratio. This is probably where the extra power comes from.

The Zetec is good, as the longer the stroke, means more lower torque (think longer leaverage). Thats how the 2.0 Zetec has a good low down compared to the Duratecs dismal torque until you hit 2500 rpm, Even have a look how close the torque figures are to each other. Its is also evident with the peak power in the Zetec at a nice lazy 5500rpm compared to the 6000rpm in the Duratec.

If you were racing a unopened LR Zetec2.0, experiment by not going to redline to shift. Shift at 5500, or whatever rpm so that when you change, you drop to 4500rpm at the nice fat torque band

If your racing an LS, at the launch bring it to about 3000rpm and slip the clutch so much as you aren't breaking traction, the ghey feather-light clutch doesn't help much here. You'll probably destroy it though doing this a lot though as well. Once your clutch is out all the way 6100rpm changes. You'll have to touch 4th gear as well, so don't waste any time in 3rd gears redline trying to make the line

With the ratios I wouldn't be suprised if they were the same gearing, with the LS ratios just rounded.

[melbzetec]

A beautiful summation BlackLS. Thankyou for that. The "oversquare" nature of the Duratec was the thing I found most interesting from the figures.

The Zetec was definitely designed for low down torque. When you look at the exhaust set up, you find the same thing (shorty header etc)

I must look around and see if anyone has shaved the head to lift compression...and what the results are

[Pieoter]

Just ran some more Simulations

LS: 6.9Second 100m, 16.2 @136kmph 1/4mile, 30.1 @173kmph 1km
LR: 7.0Second 100m, 16.7 @132kmph 1/4mile, 30.7 @170kmph 1km

I would presume that both the LS and LR have the same gearbox which i beleive is the IB5 unit. Because of the difference in tyre size the LR has effectivaly a closer ratio box.

Id still go the 2L duratec unit

Final ratio for both is 4.06

[EDIT] Mixed up LS and LR

Originally Posted by Pieoter

Just ran some more Simulations

LS: 6.9Second 100m, 16.7 @132kmph 1/4mile, 30.7 @170kmph 1km
LR: 7.0Second 100m, 16.2 @136kmph 1/4mile, 30.1 @173kmph 1km

I would presume that both the LS and LR have the same gearbox which i beleive is the IB5 unit. Because of the difference in tyre size the LR has effectivaly a closer ratio box.

Id still go the 2L duratec unit

You can just see the torque-pull from the Zetec being so useful on the quarter mile. the 16.7 is closer to the other 2 runs I did that night (16.5 with floormats in place, red hot underbonnet air temps from idling, spare wheel in place etc.

Pietor, does that include the driver in the weights?

EDIT: Disregard my Dribble

I knew the figures were a bit rich!

[Pieoter]

Sorry I mixed up the LR and LS figures :( they are fixed now

Those figure and using the kerb weight. This includes a 75kg driver, 70% fuel, all fluids and spare tyres etc. Basically how it would be most of the time. So without a spare tyres and less fuel you can cut though figures down.

As the speeds increase the LS gains a bigger and bigger advantage (as aero drag builds up the extra power gives the LS the edge).

Originally Posted by Pieoter

Sorry I mixed up the LR and LS figures :( they are fixed now

Those figure and using the kerb weight. This includes a 75kg driver, 70% fuel, all fluids and spare tyres etc. Basically how it would be most of the time. So without a spare tyres and less fuel you can cut though figures down.

As the speeds increase the LS gains a bigger and bigger advantage (as aero drag builds up the extra power gives the LS the edge).

When I ran I had 10% fuel but a big 100kg driver - me!

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by Pieoter

I would presume that both the LS and LR have the same gearbox which i beleive is the IB5 unit. Because of the difference in tyre size the LR has effectivaly a closer ratio box.


[EDIT] Mixed up LS and LR

The gearbox on the LR Zetec is actually an MTX 75 not an IB5. It was different to the CL and LX models.

And I think 17" wheels were standard on the Zetec

[zetec]

LR Zetec had standard 16" wheels Stephen, shame on you. Mind you mine shall shortly have 17"s on it... but I digress!

Focus ST170 had a Getrag 6-speed close ratio

Focus RS had a 5-speed MTX 75. Interesting. It's a tough box the old MTX75.

[Pieoter]

Yep sorry. They do use the MTX75 box. IB5 was used on the 1.8models

LS zetec has 205/50 R17 tyres = 2000.6mm circumference
LR zetec has 205/50 R16 tyres = 1920.8mm circumference meaning an extra 21rev per km compared to LS
LR zetec R has 215/45 R17 tyres = 1964.4mm circumference meaning an extra 9rev per Km compared to LS

So you can see that for each rev of the driveshaft the LS will travel further.

LR Zetec came with both 16 and 17inch rims stock depending if it was the Zetec R or normal Zetec

[melbzetec]

Thanks to Pieoter, and apologies to Matt. I always muck up that wheel thing. My Zetec came with the 17" wheels, but then again mine was an oddball car I got directly from Ford. So I get confused what was standard and what wasn't.(Glad to see you still lurking about Matt...........not at work every single hour of the day!!!!!!!)

[mauro]

does any body know were i can get performance parts for 1.8 2004 focus in melbourne

[melbzetec]

Hey Mauro,

Welcome to the forums.

The basic answer to your question is....you can't.

The internet is your friend here. I'm not too sure if 1.8.04 is LR or LS.

If it is LR, both the UK and the US can be your friend. If LS, then the UK/Europe is your only hope.

Apart from a K&N or BMC filter, or the K&N Typhoon, there is little to be had in Australia, and the cheapest way is to bring things in via mail order.

Check out the Euroford club website for some useful links. www.euroford.com

[simonr]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

Check out the Euroford club website for some useful links. www.euroford.com

www.eurofordclub.com ;)

[melbzetec]

oops! Like Simon said

[Zetec20]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

The internet is your friend here. I'm not too sure if 1.8.04 is LR or LS.

hey i think he meant 1.8 litre 2004 model, which would be the LR :P

[amlohac]

Herrod. Herrod. And more Herrod. I met a guy in albury here who had a 1.8L LR that had Herrod mods, exhaust, intake, even had some kind of performance chip, LSD all that stuff. It was basically thier project car and they sold it to him. So give them a call they might steer you right.