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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#61 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 1,717
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#62 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
The US auto workers also get a slice of Ford dividends with a bonus cheque every year, which we don't get. I just looked it up and the average UAW auto worker gets about US $23 an hour. So i'd say converted to aussie (roughly $33) dollar their wages are pretty close with ours really. But in real world terms, with everything cheaper in the USA, it means they probably have higher real world wages. And they get the bonus dividend every year, which can be another 4-5k. The legacy workers are well paid, the new hires are dudded a bit though. |
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#63 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,017
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Quote:
But greedy Australian production line workers ****ed it for Ford Australia and Holden, of course its not the sea of ****ty CEOs, AUD going dollar for dollar with the USD, energy prices in Australia, internal politics between the Australian/US subsidiaries and no export markets that was the problem (excl Holden on the exports). I'm blaming the AU Falcon for both Ford Australia and Holden's demise ![]() For cars which were supposedly unloved, the second hand values of SS/XR6T/XR8 sure tell a different story. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 18-01-2023 at 10:33 AM. |
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#64 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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Quote:
Thinking about it more Falcon really did have the same reputation and if a diesel were available it would probably have had similar results
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______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
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#65 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,017
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Quote:
Even then why did they use the older 2.7L V6 instead of the updated 3L one. One of the links in this thread mentions there was work on a diesel variation of the Barra, wonder if the development costs outweighed sourcing the 2.7L V6 or it didn't meet targets for NVH. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 18-01-2023 at 10:38 AM. |
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#66 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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#67 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
I'm not sure what happened with the diesel Barra, but production capacity would have been an issue I assume. Back in the early to mid 2000's the engine plant was running at max capacity just building Barra's for BA and Territory. There was no extra capacity to build more, unless they were going to spend significant amounts of money upgrading everything to increase build rate. Would have been a boat load of cash. I don't even know if the idea of Barra diesel was even realistic, and if they even got to the point of working on it. Or whether it was just an idea and didn't go beyond that. I would make the assumption that they may have done studies on the feasibility of it, but who knows if they got to the point of going further, with designs done and building of prototypes. I'd say not. I'd love to pick the brains of some of the old powertrain engineers out here one day. But most of them are gone now, cause most of the powertrain development shifted to Dearborn and Dagenham a few years ago. |
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#68 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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Quote:
But yes after owning one I found the 2.7 very nice to drive, but it produced its peak power at RPMs higher than a diesel should be revved. a 4 cylinder diesel might have been a better option, but they all sound like a Massey Fergusson, not for me.. as good as the Barra was, it was a 4L engine. a possible diesel variant would power a Truck
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______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
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#69 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,017
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#70 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 53
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I laugh at people who buy 4wd and never use them for there intended purpose
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#71 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 21,816
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What - don’t use them for shopping, school pick-ups and coffee dates? :p
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#72 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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I laugh when I read people not buying a Territory because they couldn't get a petrol in AWD anymore.
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______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
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#73 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 457
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Quote:
If Labour was in at the time they would of tried allot harder to keep the industry going. They did this in 80's when the industry was not going well. Who knows if Toyota was still here it could of been building the Hilux. They can't keep up with demand now. |
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#74 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,017
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I reckon they would have been better subsidising local cars on a customer level - no rego costs for the first three years/no GST on purchase/no LCT. |
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#76 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Our govco basically told them to bugger off. What am I missing here? Wouldn't have anything to do with it being a unionised industry would it? Not hard to figure that out when you have one side of the parliament with union haters like Michaela Cash, Joe Hockey and all the rest of them. |
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#77 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,923
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Didnt Ford briefly look into building the Ranger here?
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#78 | ||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,162
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Pretty sure that was the Focus. They intended to shut down the engine plant in 2010, import the Cyclone V6 as a Barra replacement and assemble Focus here from CKD kits.
When they cancelled the V6 and Focus, and therefore saving the engine plant, that was basically the point where Ford US pulled the pin on local manufacturing.
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PX MK II Ranger FG XR6 FG X XR8 Mustang GT T3 TS50 - gone but not forgotten |
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#79 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hervey Bay
Posts: 5,205
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Quote:
But do you really think an overseas country would have found our little manucturing plants desriable enough to invest mega millions in to build 40,000 cars a year? Quote:
They weren't told to bugger off, they were asked to "put up or shut up". We had 2 manufacturers with aging products whose sales were constantly dropping off a cliff. Both their products requires major refreshes and updates at a cost of I'm sure around a couple of billion $$$ and even then these products were fast falling out of favor with the vast manjority of buyers. So when the line was drawn, they chose to shut up. Its not as if Ford hadn't been half out the door for decades. Holden the same in recent times. Without government funding it just proved they weren't viable businesses. And we all know they/we are too expensive to export from, so nothing there. They were simply failing businesses that we were throwing good money after bad with no end in sight. It had to come to an end sometime, it was inevitable. To me the blame falls squarely on Ford and Holden, one trick ponies that did nothing to keep up with the times. And yes, I do think unions probably had something to do with it. Unions have their place, but in Australia they are overlords with too much power. They love nothing more than driving businesses into the ground. And if it wasn't that, then current costs resources and supplies costs would have killed them off anyways. If you look at it honestly and without bias you can easily see what happened. |
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#80 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,162
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Quote:
When you think about it, a large sedan and its derivatives were being built by all three, four if you included Mitsubishi. Once the tariffs were phased out, suddenly other brands and body styles became more desirable and affordable. Which then left Ford, Toyota, Mitsubish and Holden all selling a product that was losing popularity. That factor has been discussed many times over the years. If the remaining car manufacturers had done some collaborative planning, it could have diversified the locally made car fleet, in the process offering more opportunities for local businesses and governments to stay Australian made. For example, Mitsubish could have made the Outlander medium SUV locally instead of the 380, catering to private sales and rentals. Holden could have made another large sedan in the form of the Commodore, while spinning off a Territory-style large SUV. This would appeal to private customers, fleet, taxi and police sales. Toyota could have made the Corolla hatch/sedan, catering to private, rental and fleets needing a smaller vehicle. The Hilux Ute would then be targeted at tradesman, government departments and police. Ford could then have made Ranger and Everest, both aimed the private market, with additional sales coming from police and government land services. That combination would have offered a wider variety of locally produced cars, catering to more applications in both the private and fleet markets rather than them all essentially making the same thing. In the end, all of them were flogging a dead horse.
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PX MK II Ranger FG XR6 FG X XR8 Mustang GT T3 TS50 - gone but not forgotten Last edited by DFB FGXR6; 18-01-2023 at 09:02 PM. |
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#81 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: upper lockyer qld
Posts: 517
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Just miss my bidding on diesel falcon on graysonline tonight by one mins was sold for $650 and there is some information
2012 Ford Falcon RWD Automatic Sedan Body Type: Sedan Compliance Date: 02/2012 VIN: 6FPAAAJGSWCR68155 Registration Expiry Date: Sold Unregistered, Without Plates No. of Cylinders: ? Engine Capacity: ? Fuel Type: Diesel Drive Type: RWD Transmission: Automatic Exterior Colour: White General Condition for age and distance travelled: |
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#82 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,350
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Quote:
Nissan left in the Hawke days. Mitsubishi left under Krudd & Ford announced their departure under Gillard. During the 70s Whitlam began it all, killing manufacturing in many different areas. 'nuf said. Dr Terry |
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#83 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,138
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Quote:
It just took a few decades for reality to bite. |
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#84 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 883
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Quote:
GM / Holden were only "guaranteeing" to stay until 2022, if the Fed Govt stumped up enough subsidies. They still would have built the FWD ZB 'Insigniadore' which was destined to fail, no matter where it was built. GMs track record around the world (excluding USA) is plain to see, and the Opel, Vauxhall, and Buick versions of the ZB have now all bitten the dust, which probably have left Holden in 2023 importing some electric SAIC ****box from China .............an MG with a Holden badge ? Yeah, nah. |
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#85 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,923
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Quote:
It's an Ecoboost 2L petrol.
__________________
2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#86 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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Quote:
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
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#87 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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Quote:
Blaming the Libs is a very one eyed view, and you can't refer to the 80s for inspiration Despite what you say - Holden didn't commit it would have been stupid for our Government to send Money to Detroit for no Local Benefit Toyota would never have Built Hilux here.
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
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#88 | ||
Former BTIKD
![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
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The car in question has been sold. Wage equality between the USA and Aus has been checked again and the argument as to who or what caused the big two to stop making cars here continues.
So...... endthread.
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Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
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