Covid 19 -

[PhilT2]

Figures leaked to the BBC indicate that the Iranian govt has deliberately under-reported the number of deaths from Covid-19. The govt's own internal records show about 42,000 deaths instead of the 14,400 in their official reports.
Iran has a huge number of Afgan refugees and they have been particularly affected. The report doesn't mention why that is but I imagine overcrowded and squalid living conditions may play a part. Although they share a language Afgans are not welcome in Iran.
The Iranians are not the only govt lying about the death rate, they're just the latest one caught doing it.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-53598965

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

I’m glad you find this funny. When MACCAS can only get 66% of their meat needs, I hope they close the one closest to your house.

Food is a basic necessity and when you are restricted to only 5ks from home, and your local supermarket has nothing, what then?

And you’re right, there won’t be any local takeaways left to deliver to your door, they can’t afford another shutdown.

I don’t do conspiracy theories, but where does this stop? When we are all on a universal income? When you take your weekly government food ration?

Kfc has already started to restrict their menu. Can't currently order through the online app but you can still go in store... I dont get that part....maybe it's to manage supply and demand.
We will be OK if everyone just gets what they need instead of what they want.

[gooseneck]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Food is a basic necessity and when you are restricted to only 5ks from home, and your local supermarket has nothing, what then?

I was going to make a quip about dog meat and the local restaraunt still being open so keep an eye out for that... but then I saw the wikipedia page on dog meat and got depressed about how common it is in foreign countries so I decided not to.

Lets eat each other instead. High time for a cull of the herd.

Best and brightest first. Start with the Lawyers and the mumble rappers.

We still haven't gotten into the production of synthetic food yet so keep your chin up, I'm sure there is a soylent something around somewhere. Veggie Burgers for example are getting quite popular.

This is also a good time to express my dissatisfaction of the disappearance of the backyard garden. If it comes to that I'm sure the government will release seed packets and clear well thought out plans for everyone to pitch in for veggies in their local communities. if not them then a local University honcho will pipe in.

Those veggies can then be taken away on mass and processed into packaged food that lasts for longer.

Think about it even The Simpsons needs an ending.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

Lets eat each other instead. High time for a cull of the herd.

You can have those women who caused all the trouble with their lies about their visit to Melbourne as a first course. Parents from the local school here unhappy their kids were put at risk and would be happy to barbeque them for you, medium rare be ok?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by T2rminator

"Research from the Burnett Institute revealed that before Melbourne introduced Stage 3 lockdowns, the reproduction number was 1.75, ABC’s 7.30 program reported.

The Level 3 restrictions brought that infection rate down, meaning that 20,000 infections were avoided during the month of July."

How many potential deaths is 20,000 infections that based on current CMR?

At the current Australian CMR of 1.161% that's a worst case scenario of 200 deaths.

Further to the comment above, we knew that China was being less than truthful about either case or mortality numbers and it doesn't surprise me that there are others being (let's be generous) a bit inaccurate for a variety of reasons not all of them deliberate.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

#zilo........

#pottery beige......

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Jesus Christ, how does reducing an abattoirs output by 30% reduce the risk of covid? It will still take the same amount off staff!! And more concerning, supermarket distribution centres to reduce staff by 30% this is a disaster, you thought empty shelves were scary before, just wait, this is not workable if we want supermarkets full of food and supplies.

Thought the same thing. Premier mentioned that Victoria supplies itself and other parts of Australia, so can't afford to go off line on the abattoirs. Have any of you done contam work of any kind? The only thing I can think is maybe they reduce the people in areas where likely to get infected, and then apply heavy PPE/ protocols of removal and cleaning for those remaining. This kind of work is slow, and you have to be methodical in how you protect yourself and get out of the gear too. Eg Asbestos work, nasties like PCBS, VOCs, radiation... Not impossible to do, but things slow down, comparatively.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

You can have those women who caused all the trouble with their lies about their visit to Melbourne as a first course. Parents from the local school here unhappy their kids were put at risk and would be happy to barbeque them for you, medium rare be ok?

Are you nuts? If you like medium rare, prepare for the herpes and hepatitis.
Preferably, I'd turn them into glue; gotta keep those plastic parts on our cars stuck well.

[EgoFG]

Sweden - Only locked down the susceptible, seems to be past the grief. Daily cases down for the last month (excluding this weekend), Daily deaths decreasing since April to almost zero.
What do we think ?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Sweden - Only locked down the susceptible, seems to be past the grief. Daily cases down for the last month (excluding this weekend), Daily deaths decreasing since April to almost zero.
What do we think ?

I agree with how they did it, isolate the vulnerable, everyone else goes about it with precautions.

Right at first when it kicked off we had signs up, marks on the ground, all my customers had bollards and barriers and observing distance.

Now no one cares within reason there's no bollards, no signs (except mask ones), people are still out and about collecting or dropping off stuff in person, rep visits except for the corporates except now you've got masks and you don't shake hands.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Sweden - Only locked down the susceptible, seems to be past the grief. Daily cases down for the last month (excluding this weekend), Daily deaths decreasing since April to almost zero.
What do we think ?

I dont mind it other than not knowing the real impact or last effects of infection?

[russellw]

I'm not sure where you got your numbers for Sweden but the 7 day rolling average is still over 300 cases per day. Let's put that in perspective. It's a country with about 40% the population of Australia but with a rolling average that is 60% of even this terrible week we've been having. They have also had 5x as many cases as Australia and 27x as many deaths.

To make the comparison easier let's look at the numbers per 100k of population where Sweden has 802 cases / 100k and we have 70 / 100k so that more than 10x as many in Sweden.

Likewise, Sweden has 57 deaths per 100k of population and we have 0.8 / 100k for an even starker 71x more.

You want to call that a success?

[Mulva]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Thought the same thing. Premier mentioned that Victoria supplies itself and other parts of Australia, so can't afford to go off line on the abattoirs.

Yep, apparently the majority of smallgoods come from Vic and will be shut for 6 weeks. There are still some small smallgoods processors in other states (like Drakes do their own here in SA) but through wife's work have heard there will likely be shortages.

Not chicken little sky is falling stuff, and I've got a good stockpile of bacon - just saying it is correct that the Vic lockdown will have flow on effect to other states for some goods and industries. Definitely am not sitting in SA being all "Woe is me" because we might have Dons shortages while Vic is in absolute ****-fight for their state's health and financial future.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by russellw

You want to call that a success?

Their attempt to isolate the vulnerable doesn't meet my idea of success either. Many of their deaths were in aged care.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I'm so sorry to see the plight of Victoria at the moment . To every single person impacted by the strict new level four lockdown in Victoria I send you my wishes for the next few weeks and no less so to any fellow AFFers that'll be impacted financially or hopefully not medically .

I'm pleased to be in Tassie at the minute . Only one active case in the past 10 weeks and that was a Tasmanian returning from Victoria a bit over a week ago .

Premier Gutwein has just announced this arvo that our borders will remain closed to all the other States until at least the end of August when initially S.A , W.A , Queensland and the N.T were to start re-opening with us in about a weeks time ..

Looks like so many of us Taswegians who love travelling to Victoria , NSW and the other States will not be doing it any time soon and of course our own tourism industry reliant of great interstate and overseas visitors will keep struggling big time as well .

Can't wait to see the back of this crappy year ..Stay safe , distanced and protected from this dreadful virus everybody ...

Have relo's in Hobart who have been trying to fly out to NSW/ACT but cant because of the restrictions.

Flights were due to stop over in VIC, hence no flights, dont see why ACT/NSW cant be used instead and they abid by the 14 day guarantee on arrival and return.

I need my baby sitters by September school holidays damn it!

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Yep, apparently the majority of smallgoods come from Vic and will be shut for 6 weeks. There are still some small smallgoods processors in other states (like Drakes do their own here in SA) but through wife's work have heard there will likely be shortages.

Not chicken little sky is falling stuff, and I've got a good stockpile of bacon - just saying it is correct that the Vic lockdown will have flow on effect to other states for some goods and industries. Definitely am not sitting in SA being all "Woe is me" because we might have Dons shortages while Vic is in absolute ****-fight for their state's health and financial future.

Abattoir/smallgoods are not being shut down. There have been several out breaks in abattoirs, so the workforce and production are to be reduced for six weeks.

60% of meat grown in Australia goes to export; there will be no local supply problems.

There will be panic buying and the demand will mean the hoarders will clear the supermarket shelves again. Re stocking should happen within a few days if people just buy what they need.

[russellw]

395 new cases for Australia and 13 deaths sees the CMR rise to 1.206% and active cases rise to 7,475. NSW recorded 13; SA recorded 2 with the balance in Victoria.

2 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.404% and active cases rise to 27.

The UK recorded 928 new cases and 9 deaths yesterday so the CMR drops to 15.120%.

Just under 49k new cases in the USA yesterday and 467 deaths sees CMR down to 3.290% and active cases at 47.3% with the raw numbers still rising. That's the lowest case numbers in almost a month which is some positive news. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
The USA completes 60M, Russia 29M, India 20M and Mexico 1M tests;
Oceania passes 20k cases;
Africa passes 20k deaths;
Asia passes 100k deaths;

No countries recorded new daily highs although there are a lot of figures missing from African countries today, those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Yep, apparently the majority of smallgoods come from Vic and will be shut for 6 weeks. There are still some small smallgoods processors in other states (like Drakes do their own here in SA) but through wife's work have heard there will likely be shortages.

Not chicken little sky is falling stuff, and I've got a good stockpile of bacon - just saying it is correct that the Vic lockdown will have flow on effect to other states for some goods and industries. Definitely am not sitting in SA being all "Woe is me" because we might have Dons shortages while Vic is in absolute ****-fight for their state's health and financial future.

And August is bacon month!

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by LG17

And August is bacon month!

Tell that to your rabbi!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

60% of meat grown in Australia goes to export; there will be no local supply problems.

Not a bad time to ease up on exports and supply domestic while giving a small one finger salute to China? Petty but legit!

Originally Posted by Polyal

Not a bad time to ease up on exports and supply domestic while giving a small one finger salute to China? Petty but legit!

For the consumers sure they'll do that. The sellers aren't keen on the idea as overseas buyers pay more for the meat than australians can/will.

Personally I think we should aim to make australia as much of a closed system as we can. we should be bringing back our manufacturing industries, our farmers and anything else that can be produced, grown or serviced by australians.

Of course that means the price of housing will have to come down as labor costs are currently high on account of housing costs are high, everyone just wants to buy a house to start a family. To date, if people can't buy a house on a wage then the job finds itself going offshore to countries with cheaper labour costs because they either have cheaper housing costs or because other countries are prepared to exploit their citizens.

So the "haves" are not likely to let any of that happen because it'll affect their personal profit or their retirement plan of exploiting the average aussie for inflated rents. Sad but true. So I foresee the meat exporters doing everything they can to fire up exports with China/etc again as they don't care about your lobbying or what you believe in.

The almighty dollar is worth more than the integrity and self-sufficiency of our country.

edit: reminds me of that article I saw a few months back from a seafood export who was practically begging australians to buy up their stock for "a chance" to try premium-grade seafood while they can, because the export problems aren't going to last forever.
Yeah okay, we're not good enough to sell to on a general basis but they want us to help bail them out when the overseas buyer has closed their doors.

[T3rminator]

If you want success have a look at Taiwan. Have been doing a bit of reading / watching on how they have tackled CV19. It is fascinating to say the least. If you have a bit of time, look up at Audrey Tang, she has done numerous interviews to explain how they have been successful in tackling it so far.

A few interesting points, mostly centres around use of technology, but also how they function as a society:

1) "Government has to trust their people with open data, and not ask people to blindly trust the government." Example used was that they have an app that shows mask stock levels at pharmacies to prevent panic buying. It is updated every 30 seconds.

2) Each ministry has a comedian working for them. Within an hour, they can generate humourous videos to counter any disinformation, and when its released it goes viral and floods their social media. Humour over rumour.

3) They have a 24/7 live stream where important messages can be communicated to the public at any given time.

4) 12 ministries that have influence over social economic policies have "reverse mentorship". Each of these ministries has 2 mentors, who are members of the public and are under 35 years of age.

All of these help to maintain social cohesion to tackle a pandemic.

Also facinating to learn they have a national referendum day. Citizens can propose laws via referendums at the national and local levels. Imagine if we had that.......

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by leesa

For the consumers sure they'll do that. The sellers aren't keen on the idea as overseas buyers pay more for the meat than australians can/will.

Personally I think we should aim to make australia as much of a closed system as we can. we should be bringing back our manufacturing industries, our farmers and anything else that can be produced, grown or serviced by australians.

Of course that means the price of housing will have to come down as labor costs are currently high on account of housing costs are high, everyone just wants to buy a house to start a family. To date, if people can't buy a house on a wage then the job finds itself going offshore to countries with cheaper labour costs because they either have cheaper housing costs or because other countries are prepared to exploit their citizens.

So the "haves" are not likely to let any of that happen because it'll affect their personal profit or their retirement plan of exploiting the average aussie for inflated rents. Sad but true. So I foresee the meat exporters doing everything they can to fire up exports with China/etc again as they don't care about your lobbying or what you believe in.

The almighty dollar is worth more than the integrity and self-sufficiency of our country.

edit: reminds me of that article I saw a few months back from a seafood export who was practically begging australians to buy up their stock for "a chance" to try premium-grade seafood while they can, because the export problems aren't going to last forever.
Yeah okay, we're not good enough to sell to on a general basis but they want us to help bail them out when the overseas buyer has closed their doors.

Agree with most, if this time isnt used to give a decent reset to our systems moving forward then it will never happen.

But we need to get through it first.

Dont worry I am the first to roll my eyes when I hear older generations complain about crayfish prices and that all the good stuff goes OS.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Agree with most, if this time isnt used to give a decent reset to our systems moving forward then it will never happen.

Aussies made their choices years ago; what makes you think they will make different choices this time. Things will go back to how they were because lots of people want it that way.
There was a time when locally made and imported things (cars,tv's) were on the showroom floor side by side. We all made our choices back then.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Aussies made their choices years ago; what makes you think they will make different choices this time. Things will go back to how they were because lots of people want it that way.
There was a time when locally made and imported things (cars,tv's) were on the showroom floor side by side. We all made our choices back then.

Not saying everything will revert, obviously thats nigh impossible, but it will certainly force a rethink on distribution/supply channels, job priorities etc

We are terrible at looking after the needy in good times, CV has exposed the western systems for the capitalist greed machine it is. Australia needed a good shake up and the pollies wont do it themselves.

[Franco Cozzo]

Timely discussion - currently fighting tooth and nail to bring a product we can manufacture here back in house from overseas.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Not saying everything will revert, obviously thats nigh impossible, but it will certainly force a rethink on distribution/supply channels, job priorities etc

We are terrible at looking after the needy in good times, CV has exposed the western systems for the capitalist greed machine it is. Australia needed a good shake up and the pollies wont do it themselves.

No matter what CV has done nothing beats the almighty what you pay $$$$$ in this day and age.
People can harp on all they like what the older gen go on about but what makes you think the younger gen are willing to pay more in the future once the world gets back to normal per say infections contained let alone a vaccine.
The re think will be re sourcing, less staff improve online but why would you decrease your RRP
Trust me it won't change what you and leesa post but that the graph line in all commodities etc will just rise and rise to recover loss's.
Thats life

Originally Posted by FTE217

No matter what CV has done nothing beats the almighty what you pay $$$$$ in this day and age.
People can harp on all they like what the older gen go on about but what makes you think the younger gen are willing to pay more in the future once the world gets back to normal per say infections contained let alone a vaccine.
The re think will be re sourcing, less staff improve online but why would you decrease your RRP
Trust me it won't change what you and leesa post but that the graph line in all commodities etc will just rise and rise to recover loss's.
Thats life

If the majority are truly focused on profiting as much as possible at whatever cost then to be honest our species doesn't really deserve to survive. We're destructive, we don't think ahead or at least we don't care if what we're doing/wanting now has consequences down the track and we couldn't give a rats about others if it affects our own personal goals.
We've gone well beyond the advantages of capitalism and now we're just parasites really.

[Sprintey]

Decision and resolve to make it here is the requirement. If you look at the history of BMW, they were in financial dire straits by the late 1950s; a conglomeration of other industrial interests decided they were not going to fail, and they were supplied with the funds to make excellent new product which began to be delivered to market in the early 1970s... The rest is history.

Eg VW were rescued by a British Army officer, Japanese Zaibatsu

[auxr]

Originally Posted by leesa

If the majority are truly focused on profiting as much as possible at whatever cost then to be honest our species doesn't really deserve to survive. We're destructive, we don't think ahead or at least we don't care if what we're doing/wanting now has consequences down the track and we couldn't give a rats about others if it affects our own personal goals.
We've gone well beyond the advantages of capitalism and now we're just parasites really.

I'm not biting - someone else can - stay safe.