Covid 19 -

[russellw]

Originally Posted by PG2

How are you going to know for sure that they are vaccinated? Even if you ask, they could always just lie?

Being largely anti-social has an upside. The number of regular visitors we have here can be counted on one hand and we already know that most of them are vaccinated and the one anti-vaxxer will be an issue we'll have to address.

More difficult for sociable people I'm sure to keep a lid on it but I'm a firm believer that we have to take responsibility for out own health and well-being and that is one proactive step we can take. There are others and we'll be taking those as well.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Itsme

The visitor was a parent who unknowingly had covid; big ask to tell parents to keep away from their very sick children who want the parents at their bedside.
Maybe hospitals should hold rapid antigen test for visitors.

The protocol for immune deficient people particularly patients with cancer is different than visiting someone with a broken leg?

And its not a big ask!...its to keep their kids alive, surely Covid-19 has made all of us super aware of how infectious we are or can be without knowing it, it makes me super vigilant around folk with cancer or being treated with chemo, its a no brainer really, sure, kill your own family but don't kill mine because you "care".......

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Itsme

Maybe hospitals should hold rapid antigen test for visitors.

This........

But our big wig Doctors don't like them as they are not 100% accurate, or as good a a PCR that takes a day to come through. No contest on either of these facts.

What they haven't thought through is are they more accurate than a temperature test?

It will take a few more of these and then they will work it out.

[russellw]

While NSW is celebrating attaining the 70% fully vaccinated 16+ target, we need to remember that is still only ~65.3% of the eligible 12+ age group and 55.5% of the total population.

The ACT is next with 68.2% (65.1 / 54.9)
Tasmanian is next with 61.3% (58.5 / 50.4)
Then the NT 53.97% (51.1 / 42.2) just ahead of
Victoria with 53.77% (51.7 / 44.6) with
Queensland and WA both on 49.91% although their other percentages differ.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by russellw

Being largely anti-social has an upside. The number of regular visitors we have here can be counted on one hand and we already know that most of them are vaccinated and the one anti-vaxxer will be an issue we'll have to address.

More difficult for sociable people I'm sure to keep a lid on it but I'm a firm believer that we have to take responsibility for out own health and well-being and that is one proactive step we can take. There are others and we'll be taking those as well.

following on from your reply to my Q and above I agree.....
Got to look after yourself and your loved ones, we're all vaxxed and no matter that we can get covid or not from fellow vaxxed people I'd sooner reduce risk period.
That is we won't be too comfortable at all unvaxxed visitors coming in.
I'm afraid we won't be letting them in.
Vaxxed friends or family will need to confirm showing their certificate on their mobiles but we know those who have got vaxxed in any case.

Wife comes from a family of 8, 1 is anti and his wife, he has been informed already by the rest of the fam he's excluded from gatherings.
Strange mad but how it is looking ahead, his choice.

I suppose we might have to download the QR code for home use ?

We just had confirmation tradies will be coming in for Insurance work that has been on hold due to covid.
An email specifies usual covid practice's.
Temp checks
Masks to be worn
Only 5 workers allowed, 2 inside max.
Sanitise
Have QR code available for registering.

[cosworthfreak]

Originally Posted by russellw

…I'm a firm believer that we have to take responsibility for our own health and well-being and that is one proactive step we can take. There are others and we'll be taking those as well.

Agree completely. Beyond that, my view is that vaccination and other measures are also important for keeping my community as safe as possible, especially anyone who legitimately can’t be vaccinated.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by FTE217

On another point for all, a question ?
Are you welcoming family into your house who are non vaxxed ?
What about friends ?

Yeah, a very good question, FTE, and to be honest, not something I considered until your prompting.

For me, it's not so much about who comes into my house, it's more so who I interact with, as I probably interact with more people at work than I do at home.

Last night we had it confirmed that employees at our work location are considered authorised workers and therefore fall under the Vic government;s requirement to have their first dose before 15 Oct and second dose by 26 Nov. Anyone who does not have their appropriate doses by the required dates will not be allowed on site until doing so. By the way, the company has decided that anyone who is not vaccinated, or does not have an exception certificate, will need to take leave or be stood down without pay.

So, under these arrangements I will only be working with folks who are vaccinated.

My next big risk is most likely in retail environments, such as doing my shopping, etc. There's probably little I can do to control my exposure in those environments to those who are not vaccinated, sans getting my shopping delivered and following covidsafe behaviour (masks, sanitise, social distance, etc).

My exposure at home to anyone not vaccinated is pretty low, as I generally don't have a lot of people over at my house anyway. Most of my social interactions would be with family, and, as far as I know, they are all vaccinated anyway.

That would also apply to most of the friends that I interact with, either at their place or mine. Would I go to the length of actually asking them if they have been vaccinated? Probs not but perhaps I could find out their status by subtlety weeding the topic into a discussion. What would I do if I found out they weren't vaccinated? Not sure, tbh. I'd probs assess my level of exposure at the time (again, masks, sanitation, social distance) and then reevaluate once I got home.

My daughter works in retail: Target and KFC. She will be attending school in Year 10 for whatever is left of the 2021 school year. For me, the risk she has being exposed to someone unvaccinated is a greater concern than my exposure. That's why I'm keen for her to get her second vaccination before she takes on to much work or returns to school.

[cosworthfreak]

Originally Posted by FTE217

When a reporter asked Mr Perrottet why a representative was not present given it is a health crisis, the new premier replied: “Well, it’s also an economic crisis as well.

“We’re the elected officials,” he said, justifying this morning’s all-minister press conference line-up.

Interesting, yet not entirely surprising. Yes, the COVID situation is causing an economic crisis to follow, but it is a health crisis first and foremost. Solving the health crisis will strongly contribute to fixing the economic problems.

I also hate the “elected officials” line that pollies churn out. It doesn’t give them the ability to make the right decisions, just their own. They might have been ‘elected’ in their local area (being the only option on the ticket for their party’s voters as a result of backroom factional deals around preselection), but some of these clowns act like it was God’s will for them to be where they are. The ‘people’ didn’t vote for you, they voted for the representative their preferred party put up.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by cosworthfreak

Interesting, yet not entirely surprising. Yes, the COVID situation is causing an economic crisis to follow, but it is a health crisis first and foremost. Solving the health crisis will strongly contribute to fixing the economic problems.

I also hate the “elected officials” line that pollies churn out. It doesn’t give them the ability to make the right decisions, just their own. They might have been ‘elected’ in their local area (being the only option on the ticket for their party’s voters as a result of backroom factional deals around preselection), but some of these clowns act like it was God’s will for them to be where they are. The ‘people’ didn’t vote for you, they voted for the representative their preferred party put up.

Agree 100%.

What I do find refreshing is that he is not (1 time only I know) hiding behind someone else.

I am totally over politicians owning every positive statement. but everything unpopular is just "following the health advice". If you think it is right, own it, don't distance yourself.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by FTE217

On another point for all, a question ?
Are you welcoming family into your house who are non vaxxed ?
What about friends ?

While the majority of people will be vaccinated by default, we won’t be making an issue of it, just asking if people are sick they don’t come around and use logic.

At my age, most of us have young children that won’t be vaccinated and are waking, talking germ factories care of daycare, what logic would there be saying no to an adult?

Being we are headed for warmer weather here in Vic, the windows will be open or more likely we will all be sitting outside enjoying a BBQ, I’m looking forward to putting all this nonsense behind us.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

While the majority of people will be vaccinated by default, we won’t be making an issue of it, just asking if people are sick they don’t come around and use logic.

At my age, most of us have young children that won’t be vaccinated and are waking, talking germ factories care of daycare, what logic would there be saying no to an adult?

Being we are headed for warmer weather here in Vic, the windows will be open or more likely we will all be sitting outside enjoying a BBQ, I’m looking forward to putting all this nonsense behind us.

This is the proper response.

Vaxxed people can have covid and pass it on the same as anyone not vaxxed. So what exactly are people thinking they are achieving here?

If anything, the vaxxed person is more likely to not have symptoms. Studies have already shown the viral loads of both vaxxed and un-vaxxed is pretty much the same.


If you have the shot, you have done what you can do. It's not going to stop you catching it if you end up in the company of someone who is covid positive. The misinformation that only being around vaxxed people means you won't get covid is just silly. It's pretty staggering that a lot of people still think this is true.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by PG2

How are you going to know for sure that they are vaccinated? Even if you ask, they could always just lie?

One of My Brothers is a Project manager for a Largish Construction Company in Sydney. The Site He's currently on has had issues with Blokes Showing Him Vaccination Certificates on Their Phones that have been Photoshopped. When asked to log in to either Mygov or the NSW health website & show Him their Electronic Copies. They suddenly can longer "speakadaenglish" & leave never to been seen again..

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

This is the proper response.

Vaxxed people can have covid and pass it on the same as anyone not vaxxed. So what exactly are people thinking they are achieving here?

If anything, the vaxxed person is more likely to not have symptoms. Studies have already shown the viral loads of both vaxxed and un-vaxxed is pretty much the same.


If you have the shot, you have done what you can do. It's not going to stop you catching it if you end up in the company of someone who is covid positive. The misinformation that only being around vaxxed people means you won't get covid is just silly. It's pretty staggering that a lot of people still think this is true.

Yes, viral loads may be the same but there is some recent evidence (noting that it hasn't been peer-reviewed yet) that vaccinated people are less infectious than those who are not vaccinated.

A quick google search shows that the research is still being conducted and that we are still uncovering exactly how well vaccinations work, or don't work, in certain circumstances.

I don't think there's a 'proper' (as you put it) way to respond. People's circumstances are different, and the way they manage that risk is right for them.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Yes, viral loads may be the same but there is some recent evidence (noting that it hasn't been peer-reviewed yet) that vaccinated people are less infectious than those who are not vaccinated.

A quick google search shows that the research is still being conducted and that we are still uncovering exactly how well vaccinations work, or don't work, in certain circumstances.

I don't think there's a 'proper' (as you put it) way to respond. People's circumstances are different, and the way they manage that risk is right for them.

Yes it's up to the individual of course. But the people blindly thinking they won't catch covid from a vaxxed person is just silly. Have to take precautions against everyone who enters the house.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yes it's up to the individual of course. But the people blindly thinking they won't catch covid from a vaxxed person is just silly. Have to take precautions against everyone who enters the house.

Is there anyone on here who is "blindly thinking they won't catch covid from a vaxxed person"? I haven't seen anyone stating or alluding to that yet.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

The protocol for immune deficient people particularly patients with cancer is different than visiting someone with a broken leg?

And its not a big ask!...its to keep their kids alive, surely Covid-19 has made all of us super aware of how infectious we are or can be without knowing it, it makes me super vigilant around folk with cancer or being treated with chemo, its a no brainer really, sure, kill your own family but don't kill mine because you "care".......

Quite sure the Royal children's Hospital knows all the risks involved with visitors, matter fact most hospitals as I'm aware of do not allow visitors at all in Victoria so if the RCH is allowing visitors there must be some sort of standard for visitors to abide by. Unfortunately nothing is perfect in this world plus I'm quite sure RCH will implement tighter infection controls to stop a repeat.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Is there anyone on here who is "blindly thinking they won't catch covid from a vaxxed person"? I haven't seen anyone stating or alluding to that yet.

No its just something for anti-gov and anti-vax to cling on too.

/waits for youtube link

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Is there anyone on here who is "blindly thinking they won't catch covid from a vaxxed person"? I haven't seen anyone stating or alluding to that yet.

yes a more balanced response and approach.
Whilst I respect all opinions I don't see anyone here being blinded about the countless facts but overall make a respective decision what suits his/hers/their needs.
Mostly its the ones against period who make the noise.

I asked the wife what of any friends unvaxxed when coming over, her response was - we don't have stupid friends.
I won't argue with her lol.....

Fox, ofcourse those of us in the work force mix more there than home obviously, well those not WFH when the time comes.
I'm in my own business as mentioned with up to 12 employees, thankfully we've been open for business all through lockdown.
1 left not vaxxed, he'll be gone soon if not, thats more to do with my bro biz partner due to having pulmonary disease symptoms, can't afford getting covid period.

Same, daughter 16 working part time at maccas, will always have our concerns BUT she's been double vaxxed now so we feel safer for her but with kids interacting as they do from next week and ahead has me a bit oh o.
Anyway I/we can't live in a bubble went just got to alert/careful and have some trust about it all as well.

Anyway thanks for some pov's guys, I was just curious.

[MrEL]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Interesting question.

In my business, which involves going into people's homes, customers are ringing up our office to book appointments (for after lockdown).

Many are now requesting that they will only allow fully vaccinated staff or contractors from our company into their homes. And these requests are increasing each day.

While our business has not mandated that we are all vaccinated, and are pro-choice, they have told us, that obviously, due to "market forces" we will get less work if we are not vaccinated.

So they have requested that if we are fully vaccinated, that we give them a copy of our vaccination certificate as proof, and send only those that are vaccinated out to clients who have specifically requested only vaccinated staff.

So it seems that consumers are already asking the question without thought as to it being socially acceptable or not.

My work is in exactly the same position.
No one is being forced to get jabbed.
But the company has said that if there is work that is ok for non vaccinated to do they will get it , but if there is not any work available due to customers only wanting vaccinated people people will get stood down.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yes it's up to the individual of course. But the people blindly thinking they won't catch covid from a vaxxed person is just silly. Have to take precautions against everyone who enters the house.

I'm not letting no unvaxxed person in my house and it has nothing to do with catching the virus, I got the ****s with their bull **** arguments as to why they don't want to be vaxxed unless they have a valid medical exemption.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Is there anyone on here who is "blindly thinking they won't catch covid from a vaxxed person"? I haven't seen anyone stating or alluding to that yet.

Not on here no. But i've heard people say it. You severely overestimate how easily people are blinded by what they watch on TV.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Not on here no. But i've heard people say it. You severely overestimate how easily people are blinded by what they watch on TV.

Fair enough. I thought your posts were implying that it was people on here you had an issue with.

Yes, you are right, there are people who are easily influenced by what they watch, not just on tv but via other sources, too. And what they read on the internet as well. But that happens on both sides of the ledger.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by MrEL

My work is in exactly the same position.
No one is being forced to get jabbed.
But the company has said that if there is work that is ok for non vaccinated to do they will get it , but if there is not any work available due to customers only wanting vaccinated people people will get stood down.

I love these business approachs, oh were not forcing you but this is whats going down lol......
So admirable of them - more like we've drawn the line in the sand for you

[tweeked]

[QUOTE=FTE217;6636947]I love these business approachs, oh were not forcing you but this is whats going down lol......
So admirable of them - more like we've drawn the line in the sand for you [/QUOTE

What choice does a business have?

The Gov has laid down that each business is protected in being able to prevent unvaccinated people from coming onto their sites. So your business needs to understand that it must abide by other businesses site rules.

Your business is required to provide a safe workplace for all workers.

Your business is not allowed to discriminate against a worker.

Meanwhile - the directions that Dan Andrews announced regarding Authorised workers needing to vaccinated after the 15th of October is still not an order by law. It is still listed as an "intention". We have 600 people working or engaged with us in Victoria, it is 8 days out and we still risk all of the requirements above because we do not have a concrete path. Don't push workers, then they wont be able to work on the 15th. Push workers with no rule in law, and we are being discriminatory.

Who wants to run a business in this state?

PS. My sixth sense tells me this whole 15th of October thing is a ruse to get more people on the vaccination path. I am sure his phone rang hot the night of that announcement. "You want a shortage of trucks, police and nurses? Have you seen the UK with no drivers for tankers?" We will know if with a day or two to go he throttles it back from mandatory to "strongly advised". In the meantime it will be mayhem for business.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

My wife tells me he was questioned as to the whereabouts of Dr Chant

The details have escaped.

https://twitter.com/cokeefe9/status/...456130568?s=20

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by MrEL

My work is in exactly the same position.
No one is being forced to get jabbed.
But the company has said that if there is work that is ok for non vaccinated to do they will get it , but if there is not any work available due to customers only wanting vaccinated people people will get stood down.

You know what!..I'm confused by your answer to the OP, your company is telling you to get vaccinated if you are not already vaccinated, it's not a direct order signed by the Chairman of the Board, but a subtle hint that those not vaxed will not be given work in future, and of course you are supposed to read between the lines, is it illegal to ask your workforce to get a vaccination, I don't know what your State or Territory law states, but common-sense tells you that a vaccination is the proper thing to do, regardless of what anyone else tells you/ us, we all have a choice, in this case your employer is hinting, " don't be silly, get it done"!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

I live in a city not under control by " live " covid infections, its like when I was boilermaker and fabricating, I was my own quality control, my rules were better than the normal " fit for purpose " crap!

I honestly don't know why you are venting about the parent since the RCH allowed visits for a very good reason which is beyond your comprehension.

You have no idea what people are going through over here in the Eastern states and be glad you don't have our problems in your state otherwise you be changing your tune.
Enough said.


OBTW Martial Law does not exist for Australia; not in our constitution.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by MrEL

My work is in exactly the same position.
No one is being forced to get jabbed.
But the company has said that if there is work that is ok for non vaccinated to do they will get it , but if there is not any work available due to customers only wanting vaccinated people people will get stood down.

The problem I have is this, and this is the kicker...

Customers are now requesting only vaccinated staff and contractors from our company enter their homes... Fair enough, that is their right since I am entering their private property. Their rules.

But... Let's look at the other side of this scenario.

I have to go into people's homes everyday. Probably 20 homes a week.

But I do not have the right to refuse going if the occupants or home owners are not vaccinated themselves... I still have to do the work, or lose my job.

Now, I am the one running the risk, even though I take precautions like wearing a mask, gloves and being fully vaccinated, etc.

And there are 1000's like me in my situation... Tradies, estimators and contractors going into private homes everyday.

How is that fair?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

The problem I have is this, and this is the kicker...

Customers are now requesting only vaccinated staff and contractors from our company enter their homes... Fair enough, that is their right since I am entering their private property. Their rules.

But... Let's look at the other side of this scenario.

I have to go into people's homes everyday. Probably 20 homes a week.

But I do not have the right to refuse going if the occupants or home owners are not vaccinated themselves... I still have to do the work, or lose my job.

Now, I am the one running the risk, even though I take precautions like wearing a mask, gloves and being fully vaccinated, etc.

And there are 1000's like me in my situation... Tradies, estimators and contractors going into private homes everyday.

How is that fair?

That is a fair comment but there is still many customers who do not think of requesting vaccinated tradies; I was one of them who just recently had some work done at home and took the chance that the tradies were covid free and being vaccinated, also hoping they kept their distance obeying all hygeine standards that is required.

[FTE217]

[QUOTE=tweeked;6636955]

Originally Posted by FTE217

I love these business approachs, oh were not forcing you but this is whats going down lol......
So admirable of them - more like we've drawn the line in the sand for you [/QUOTE

What choice does a business have?

The Gov has laid down that each business is protected in being able to prevent unvaccinated people from coming onto their sites. So your business needs to understand that it must abide by other businesses site rules.

Your business is required to provide a safe workplace for all workers.

Your business is not allowed to discriminate against a worker.

Meanwhile - the directions that Dan Andrews announced regarding Authorised workers needing to vaccinated after the 15th of October is still not an order by law. It is still listed as an "intention". We have 600 people working or engaged with us in Victoria, it is 8 days out and we still risk all of the requirements above because we do not have a concrete path. Don't push workers, then they wont be able to work on the 15th. Push workers with no rule in law, and we are being discriminatory.

Who wants to run a business in this state?

PS. My sixth sense tells me this whole 15th of October thing is a ruse to get more people on the vaccination path. I am sure his phone rang hot the night of that announcement. "You want a shortage of trucks, police and nurses? Have you seen the UK with no drivers for tankers?" We will know if with a day or two to go he throttles it back from mandatory to "strongly advised". In the meantime it will be mayhem for business.

tweeked, I was just playing devils advocate.
I just find it amusing people in general I expect see this as a nice general fair approach.....
C rap no, being the Fed/State Govs wont apply this as law per say (and hard getting it through in the first place) companies/small business owners have their backs to the wall in fear of being sued full stop.
Its just wrong, its no choice again.
Another issue at hand thrown to us in business/work force having to carry the load on top of everything else we've all had to cop last 2yrs.
Just to run operations now to covid standards/requirements is another additional cost to bare.
Tax's, wonder whats next to come there.
A new covid tax % ????

Living costs are going to keep increasing, price increase's to providers/importers/ on top of local increase's is going to kick in more more the coming months.

Aside from the relief we in Sydney/NSW are finally going to see some light from next week onwards followed by Melb fingers for you all in time its going to a challenging year ahead for many.

Don't know who has checked on flights out of late but we had to consider taking a flight to USA late Nov. (we have every year for business pre covid) not that I was that keen with all their infections and other hurdles BUT our travel agent informed those early Qantas flights LA return is for 15people only in economy ! 15 ! not sure in Bus/1st class.
Cost, FFS forget it.
I got word from another aussie source (not sure too accurate) who has been trying to get back of late, been quoted near on $50k.

Like all this who ha about opening up for travel (not that I care tbh) but at what costs and how long is this going to on for.
A long time I feel.