Covid 19 -

[tweeked]

“Studies show” when politicians and overqualified “book smart” people get together not much clever stuff results.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Frustration is high, but it has been for months!

I see Neil Mitchell from 3aw did an opinion piece critiquing the Premiers handling of the pandemic.

They started a pole yesterday, 'Was it the right decision to extend the Melbourne lockdown by a further two weeks?'

So far over 70% agree with the extended lock down, from about 140 000 votes.


https://www.9news.com.au/national/co...5-9198ba112573

Outrage porn is what our media is great at. Just read the headlines. Not one positive piece of news ever comes out. Whenever we have a low case number they focus on deaths and lock downs. There has now been two sets of "surveys" done that has attracted over 100,000 respondents, one from nine news / the age and one from herald sun, both love an Andrews bashing.....and the results of both resoundingly supports the current strategy.

When people start making threats against MPs' families and their children, you know something isn't right. Some of the stuff said against Fiona Patten and Samantha Ratnam is just vile. Are these people really angry at the restrictions, or is there a deeper problem and this is just an excuse?

It also made me think today about how asylum seekers mentally cope with being locked up indefinitely.......

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I think Daniel Andrews grinned from ear to ear when he saw the wording of that question.

I am amazed that 30% said no to it. I don't think anyone expected that the lockdown would be "lifted". People are not angry that there is still some form of lockdown ongoing - they are angry about the conditions of the lockdown.

If the question was "should we be safely opening up quicker than what the Government is proposing" it think you would see a very different result.

They have thrown gardeners a bone; I am getting my business ‘Covid ready' to start up again next Monday.

Over 100 000 of us allowed to go back to work under the extended lockdown.

[.:4:.]

So, granted, im in nsw and its deffinately not as strict as vic. But what i fail to understand with the vic situiation, is that you only hear about the lets say 5% of people who do not do the recommended, yet probably the majority do. So in my head, community transmission should technically be managed it if theres no community?
So dunno if its across the board, but my grandparents are really old, both in their mid 90s. Theyre in a lovely private nursing home. They cannot have visitors. Reason being policy says, 14 days isolation if you leave the premesis. And every 2 weeks my olds have hospital checkups. So from all accounts, thats really done a number on my grandparents. My grandma is pretty frail, but apreciates things like the flowers in the communal garden. Grandpa though, pre covid, he still held his drivers licence, wouldnt drive far and only in daylight out of peak times, he had his prius. Everyday would go for a walk. Now, being so couped up he needs assistance to walk. Yes, they are what i would consider the most vulnerable, but the rapid decline is just really sad.

[Fed]

There is much attention paid to the potential seriousness of this virus, yet real life figures around the globe do not support the extreme measure being taken.

Let me fix that for you.

There is much attention paid to the potential seriousness of this virus, yet the extreme measures being taken are keeping the virus at minimum levels.

I don't even want to think about the state the World would be in if covid was allowed to run it's course.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Fed

Let me fix that for you.



I don't even want to think about the state the World would be in if covid was allowed to run it's course.

Secure the rest homes and the death rate drops by 90%.

If you mandate the social distancing, sanitising, and other simple measures that still allow the people and economy to function albeit it at a reduced level them the spread is contained.

Why is a covid death treated more seriously than a suicide? Both are preventable, with the right support in place.

Mental health issues will cause far more long lasting effects, you already see the beginning of people starting to rise up.
At the moment it’s largely the loony minority, but the longer you lock people up the more desperate they will become.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

That's because the medical team they're getting advice from are all from the 'elimination' camp - massively stacked panel it's just like Q&A except they don't have the solitary person from the other camp to all crucify.

Remember when it was just about 'flattening the curve'?

Now it's keep 6 million people under house arrest indefinitely - how fair is that on our arts/culture and hospitality industry? Or the massive amount of youth who get their first start in these industries?

Be careful which opinions you post though or you'll end up on the AFF moderation ****list because here on AFF we don't like opinions that are against the bull**** we're being fed and we need to protect the chicken littles from differing points of view

I noticed the rhetoric from andrews is already changing. Now it's "if things go well, we can get out of lockdown pretty quickly". Which is the exact opposite of what he was saying yesterday. It was all doom and gloom, and stay the course etc. The heat is getting to him. He has absolutely copped it today. And rightly so.

And yeah, waiting for the usual sheep to chime in with the usual "wHat HapPenS iF yOur GraNdPaReNts Died FrOm It, ThEn You'D HaVe A DifFeReNt OpInIon ". Bloody sheep just swallow down whatever crap the government feeds to them.

I'd be more concerned about the suicide rate, which is going to go through the roof once the economic impact is fully felt. But Andrews not only did a great job of stopping the virus with the strictest lock down in the nation, he also did a brilliant job of destroying the economy. Bravo Mr Andrews.

[cs123]

I wonder when NSW will reopen their border to Victoria?

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Be careful which opinions you post though or you'll end up on the AFF moderation ****list because here on AFF we don't like opinions that are against the bull**** we're being fed and we need to protect the chicken littles from differing points of view

Correction ...

What I don't like are:

1. Deliberately provocative opinions designed to generate a reaction which we all know is what you do; and
2. Overt political statements designed to do likewise - and in breach of the site T&C.

Stop both of those (which I know you won't) and I'll stop deleting your drivel.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

I've generally given up posting in this thread as it seems as though people aren't prepared to consider other people's perspectives without taking it as a personal affront.

But I just have to say that, even though I don't agree with every decision they make, I respect the work that our Government (in this case the Vic Government) have worked tirelessly at to manage this pandemic. It's easy for anyone to sit on the sidelines and assess the performance of the individuals who are making VERY difficult decisions when you're not the one in their position. I'd really like to see what sort of mess those opponents would make of our state if they were in charge.

I'd also like to thank the work of the moderators of this forum and in particular the work they do in this thread. It would be very easy for this thread to derail quickly, and be shut down, but I think the moderators are doing a fine job in balancing the discussion to allow the conversation to continue on and people present their side of the discussion, allowing that discussion to continue on.

Thank you.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

They have thrown gardeners a bone; I am getting my business ‘Covid ready' to start up again next Monday.

Over 100 000 of us allowed to go back to work under the extended lockdown.

And should have happened months ago for nearly all of them. Where people can work safely then they should have been allowed to. This could have been set up along similar lines to the permit system for essential workers.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Secure the rest homes and the death rate drops by 90%.

If you mandate the social distancing, sanitising, and other simple measures that still allow the people and economy to function albeit it at a reduced level them the spread is contained......

After all the discussion / knowledge / thought sharing here, I can't help but think on a similar note, there is likely a more intelligent strategy out there that is not just 'lock down'.

We are fortunate here in W.A. I assume linked to population density, early intervention and possibly generally better compliance.
To maintain that, random travel from known cases wouldn't be smart or necessary (travel)

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by tweeked

And should have happened months ago for nearly all of them. Where people can work safely then they should have been allowed to. This could have been set up along similar lines to the permit system for essential workers.

I kept telling my customers 'they will not stop me working' as I work alone outside; I was wrong!

I don't believe there was much chance of me spreading Covid 19, or others working in similar situations.

I also understand there is zero chance of us spreading anything if I we are in lock down.

I don't know where the balance is, but it is working to get numbers down.

I am lucky, only off work for six weeks. Now I can pay tax again to help prop up the economy.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

I've generally given up posting in this thread as it seems as though people aren't prepared to consider other people's perspectives without taking it as a personal affront.

But I just have to say that, even though I don't agree with every decision they make, I respect the work that our Government (in this case the Vic Government) have worked tirelessly at to manage this pandemic. It's easy for anyone to sit on the sidelines and assess the performance of the individuals who are making VERY difficult decisions when you're not the one in their position. I'd really like to see what sort of mess those opponents would make of our state if they were in charge.

I'd also like to thank the work of the moderators of this forum and in particular the work they do in this thread. It would be very easy for this thread to derail quickly, and be shut down, but I think the moderators are doing a fine job in balancing the discussion to allow the conversation to continue on and people present their side of the discussion, allowing that discussion to continue on.

Thank you.

Lets not forget that the second wave is entirely of Dandrews' own making.

[roKWiz]

I'm confused. Is this a disease or virus.

It's a virus that causes disease *ducks for cover*

[Franco Cozzo]

'This is killing us': Andrews' road map sparks dismay in country Victoria

"It’s just crazy," said David Strange, owner and operator of the large Metung Hotel in East Gippsland.

"In the whole 20,000 square kilometres of East Gippsland, there’s been one case of COVID-19 in six months. I don’t know if the Victorian government and Dan Andrews have a clue how we operate out here, but this so-called plan is killing us."

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...06-p55svz.html

Someone I know has a stake in a group managing 20 or so pubs, they're on the hook for a lot of rents, wages (are eligable job keeper thank god) and debt is accumulating, how long before the bank goes - this is no longer viable, we want our money?

Hospitality has been marginal for a long time, SFA cash in it, the money comes in from gambling, the food is there to get you in the door and onto the pokies/TAB. It was hard for that industry to make money in the good times.

Federal government, businesses sour on Victorian road map

The federal government will scrutinise Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews' handling of the coronavirus pandemic and has warned an extension of two weeks to lockdown will cause more workers to lose their jobs.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison, Treasurer Josh Frydenberg and Health Minister Greg Hunt said in a joint statement on Sunday afternoon that Victoria's performance on contract tracing was particularly concerning and the new road map would have difficult economic consequences.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/f...06-p55stv.html

Federal government has the ****s up of course, I don't blame them, how much funding is coming from them? They're on the hook for job keeper/seeker.

No justification': Anger over mobile surveillance units at public parks

"The cameras can help to capture and deter breaches of Chief Health Officer directions as well as other crimes and community safety issues. For operational reasons we will not be providing commentary on how many of these units are being used or where and when they are positioned," the police spokesman said. David Grayson from St Kilda East visited Victoria Gardens on Sunday morning and accused police of abusing new powers conferred on the force by the Chief Health Officer and the government.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...06-p55svg.html

Things like this - keeping an eye on people exercising, really?

[73 4V XB]

[b0son]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

No surprise they are already being pulled down, I watched these this morning, incredible to think

It would be incredible if more people would think...

Do you really want to take medical advice from someone who believes medical issues such as cysts, infertility and impotence are caused by people having sex with “spirit husbands” or “spirit wives” ....

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by b0son

It would be incredible if more people would think...

Do you really want to take medical advice from someone who believes medical issues such as cysts, infertility and impotence are caused by people having sex with “spirit husbands” or “spirit wives” ....

What? I thought it was 5G!

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by leesa

It's a virus that causes disease *ducks for cover*

So it passes the “duck test”?

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by b0son

It would be incredible if more people would think...

Do you really want to take medical advice from someone who believes medical issues such as cysts, infertility and impotence are caused by people having sex with “spirit husbands” or “spirit wives” ....

Even a broken clock is right twice a day..

The studies coming out recently have back up what these all these doctors were saying at the time, yes even the crazed witch doctor.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...06-p55svg.html

Things like this - keeping an eye on people exercising, really?

Those mobile cameras have been around our parks for a LONG time. I walked the tan often at night 8pm - 10pm (prior to restrictions), and have noticed those devices there occasionally, they do move around. I have NO problems with them whatsoever because they make the general public feel safer. Many females jog on the track, on their own, and late at night. That, to me, is freedom. To be able to do what I want (legally), when I want, without fear.

Yes, people can twist this and say it is "spying". But seriously, how many people give a cr@p that police know they are walking at a park?!?! Just my view.

Edit: also just to add. I lived in London for 5 years. One of the most CCTVed cities in the world. No one ever complained. Why? Because everyone felt safer. You'd see people streaming out of bars and clubs at 3am in the morning and groups of females will walk home by themselves. People just generally felt safe.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Those mobile cameras have been around our parks for a LONG time. I walked the tan often at night 8pm - 10pm (prior to restrictions), and have noticed those devices there occasionally, they do move around. I have NO problems with them whatsoever because they make the general public feel safer. Many females jog on the track, on their own, and late at night. That, to me, is freedom. To be able to do what I want (legally), when I want, without fear.

Yes, people can twist this and say it is "spying". But seriously, how many people give a cr@p that police know they are walking at a park?!?! Just my view.

Edit: also just to add. I lived in London for 5 years. One of the most CCTVed cities in the world. No one ever complained. Why? Because everyone felt safer. You'd see people streaming out of bars and clubs at 3am in the morning and groups of females will walk home by themselves. People just generally felt safe.

I don't think many people have an issue when used for the reasons you state. But used to catch people like the two old ladies sitting on a park bench for half an hour and then snatch their phone off them?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I don't think many people have an issue when used for the reasons you state. But used to catch people like the two old ladies sitting on a park bench for half an hour and then snatch their phone off them?

Yeh I haven't read the one about the two old ladies. Snatching the phone would indicate something happened. Need full story before judging.

Speaking of "old". Have noticed more "grey" and "white" haired population walking about outside with spring upon us. Usually they just ignore you, but recently almost every single one has made some sort of effort to say g'day. Either I'm imagining things or they seem to be grateful for the efforts us "young" folks are putting in.

[78xcgxl]

I think the Victorian Government is doing a great job. No point cutting corners. At the end of the day the people who complain the most during the lock down are only thinking of the scenario from a selfish point of view. Human life is the most important thing not business, profit and political gain. There is enough greed in the world, time people think of others as well. Especially those more vulnerable.

Amazing how everyone over night is now an infectious disease expert.

Modelling shows the chance of a virus resurgence in Melbourne if we reopen at 5 cases a day on the 14-day average is 3%. Compared to 64% if reopening at 25 cases a day. Common sense and basic math for the sake of a couple of weeks. Everyone in Victoria needs to follow the plan. Get through it. Avoid another lockdown.

[Tickford.]

Ok, so now we are supposed to take advice from witch doctors?? As factual medical advice/evidence??

Right.... that's it. We are well and truly - f**ked!

[snap0964]

A few funnies to alleviate the gloom:

[PhilT2]

As the vaccine race is entering the home straight I thought i would put up something to identify the front runners and monitor their progress. I'll add to this as the race progresses. Feel free to add if you wish.
Here's the leaders
AZD 1222 Developed by Oxford University/ Astrazeneca, currently in Stage 3 trials in multiple sites worldwide and already in mass production in India. Expected delivery date late Oct. This vaccine is manufactured using a modified Adinovirus, conventional tech used with many other vaccines.
MRNA 1273 Moderna/NIH, At a similar stage to the Oxford one but mass production may not be at the same level. Expected delivery date is Nov/Dec. This vaccine uses the new RNA technology
BNT 162B2 Biontech/Pfizer/Fosun Another vaccine well into its Stage 3 trials. based on RNA tech and committed to a Dec delivery.
All the above require two shots approx four weeks apart.

The next two, Russian and Chinese products, skipped Stage 3 trials which are normally needed to get regulatory approval and went straight to wider distribution
Gamaleya/Sputnik 5 This is the one Putin's daughter got, a conventional vaccine based on the Adinovirus. Wider distribution in Russia starts this week.
Sinovac This is the main Chinese product although I think they actually have two at the same stage. They started vaccinating their military some time ago.

Uni of Qld/ CSL Not up with the leaders but still in contention. Another RNA based vaccine with CSL gearing up to manufacture in Australia.
Merck Trailing the field, not even at stage 1 trials yet but worth a mention as they have an oral vaccine in development; good news for those who don't like jabs.

Mass production is the big question. Very few places have the capacity to take on the manufacture of billions of doses of these vaccines. India is one of the places where large numbers of vaccines are already produced and has started to produce the Oxford vaccine in large quantity. I imagine the political pressure to have something ready before Nov 3 is intense; if somehow it goes badly well it won't matter because the election will be over by then.

[DJR-351]

Here's the video....

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/healt...ideo-c-1297980

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Yeh I haven't read the one about the two old ladies. Snatching the phone would indicate something happened. Need full story before judging.