AU 5.0 header Q's

raised by monkeys · 08-01-2012, 06:21 PM

G'day

my goal for my ute is 200rwkw - 210rwkw. So im not after huge numbers.
My Q is, the stock te50 headers seem like a good choice if a set were available at a good price over aftermarket.

stock te50 headers have 1 5/8" primaries and 2.5" collection is that correct?

I am on a budget, but should i just spend the extra $$ and go aftermarket stainless HPC with bigger primaries?

b2tf · 08-01-2012, 07:03 PM

Secondhand set of pacies would be the go. You will get 4.6 million answers as to who prefers 4 into 1s, tri-y's etc to be honest I would just get whatever you find that suits the budget. Anything is going to be better than stock.

**Whoosha** · 08-01-2012, 07:35 PM

Why bother with SSHPC set, as Austin said if your on a budget just get some Pacies or secondhand 200 220s, on a 200kw motor your would be flat out picking the difference on the road

b2tf · 08-01-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoosha

on a 200kw motor your would be flat out picking the difference on the road

You bloody 220 owners, think you're all that don't ya

XH5LWEPN · 08-01-2012, 10:25 PM

If we are talking 200-210rwkw on an unopened motor id be going to a set of PH4006's.
Factory headers are great if you cut off the 2.25" collector and open it up to 2.5".
But if your chasing every last drop of power, id go to the tuned length 1-5/8" Pacemakers.

raised by monkeys · 09-01-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XH5LWEPN

If we are talking 200-210rwkw on an unopened motor id be going to a set of PH4006's.
Factory headers are great if you cut off the 2.25" collector and open it up to 2.5".
But if your chasing every last drop of power, id go to the tuned length 1-5/8" Pacemakers.

I am new to 5.0's and bigger engine mods. Looking at a mild street cam later on down the track, nothing serious, and some possible porting to match the intake and to make things flow a little better.

All input and advise is welcome from you all

Sox · 08-01-2012, 10:34 PM

Aside from hand made headers like my own, these are the best performing and best value IMO.

http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/pr...5412124e98d5a5

BZINGA · 09-01-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Aside from hand made headers like my own, these are the best performing and best value IMO.

http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/pr...5412124e98d5a5

I ended up using these, no complaints ..

Sox · 09-01-2012, 08:59 AM

Take a gander at this thread -

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11345274

raised by monkeys · 09-01-2012, 12:00 PM

so, in saying all this, if i were to purchase a set of headers before doing any major mods, would it be pointless or will the same set of headers provide me with what i need later down the track also? and which option would be appropriate in such a scenario?

Sox · 09-01-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

so, i saying all this, if i were to purchase a set of headers shortly, before doing any major mods, would it be pointless or will the same set of headers provide me with what i need later down the track also?

No problem, IMO.
It's not like you'll ever spin it past 8000rpm.
It's unlikely you'll ever spin it past 6500rpm for that matter.

b2tf · 09-01-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

so, in saying all this, if i were to purchase a set of headers before doing any major mods, would it be pointless or will the same set of headers provide me with what i need later down the track also? and which option would be appropriate in such a scenario?

I think headers and a decent exhaust should actually be at the top of your mods list. It is one of the first things I did to my ute and the difference is noticable - there's no point trying to make the engine breathe better if it can't get the gas out.

As above, everybody has a different opinion on what works. I have 4 into 1's and for the cost and effort involved I wouldn't change them to anything else.

Grobbo · 09-01-2012, 01:09 PM

Depending on budget, if you have a 200kw motor, the stock headers are hardly rubbish - I mean they already liberate 15 more kw than the 185 headers don't they? (them being the only difference betwixt the two motors)

I always suspected I'd get more gains from changing out my old flogged out cats for new 100 cell items than changing the stock headers.

I often wondered what was also happening with peoples cats when they were talking about the gains they got from switching headers.

No science behind this hunch, just sayin'... But I had budgeted/planned to do cats, then some other stuff, before I changed the stock headers on my 200kw 4.9.

Sox · 09-01-2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Depending on budget, if you have a 200kw motor, the stock headers are hardly rubbish - I mean they already liberate 15 more kw than the 185 headers don't they? (them being the only difference betwixt the two motors)

I always suspected I'd get more gains from changing out my old flogged out cats for new 100 cell items than changing the stock headers.

I often wondered what was also happening with peoples cats when they were talking about the gains they got from switching headers.

No science behind this hunch, just sayin'... But I had budgeted/planned to do cats, then some other stuff, before I changed the stock headers on my 200kw 4.9.

I'm not sure what all the exact differences are, but I do know the 200 has a bigger cam than the 185.
I actually thought the headers were the same, but I'm not sure.

FWIW, I actually do feel the the standard headers are pretty much rubbish for anyone chasing performance.
Firstly for street use tri-y provide a much wider spread of power.
Secondly, they are way too short and not tuned length.

As my old exhaust maker said, they're ok for a factory type header, being better than the old cast iron log manifold, but compared to a well made tri-y, they're *****.

Grobbo · 09-01-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

I'm not sure what all the exact differences are, but I do know the 200 has a bigger cam than the 185.
I actually thought the headers were the same, but I'm not sure.

FWIW, I actually do feel the the standard headers are pretty much rubbish for anyone chasing performance.
Firstly for street use tri-y provide a much wider spread of power.
Secondly, they are way too short and not tuned length.

As my old exhaust maker said, they're ok for a factory type header, being better than the old cast iron log manifold, but compared to a well made tri-y, they're *****.

Well according to the info on this site (AU XR8 basic questions answered) the 185 and the 200 are identical motors, aside from the headers. I think I've also read that in an article elsewhere too. (Autospeed)

Yeah sounds about right about the headers I guess, in my case I couldn't do both cats and new headers, so I thought cats only would give me more gains. The exhaust man talked me out of it tho - said just save it till you can do both... :-) Sold it before that day came...

xr8ute · 09-01-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Well according to the info on this site (AU XR8 basic questions answered) the 185 and the 200 are identical motors, aside from the headers. I think I've also read that in an article elsewhere too. (Autospeed)

That thread is full of information that is both contradictory and some simply incorrect.

Jeffs reply is correct; the AU XR8 185kw and AU XR8 200kw have the same headers.

XH5LWEPN · 09-01-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Depending on budget, if you have a 200kw motor, the stock headers are hardly rubbish - I mean they already liberate 15 more kw than the 185 headers don't they? (them being the only difference betwixt the two motors).

185kw headers were the same as 200kw, the extra 15kw came from the crow cam and 1.7 rockers.

Those 13sec unopened 220kw XR8's, wonder how many were running Hurricane headers? I know the AUII XR8 that i bought the 220kw engine out of for my ex missus fairmont Ghia was running 13.8's with PH4006's. Not sure what Craig was running on his..

Sox · 09-01-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XH5LWEPN

185kw headers were the same as 200kw, the extra 15kw came from the crow cam and 1.7 rockers.

I thought so, but I think they're 1.6 rockers.
Then the 220 had a smaller cam, but 1.7 rockers.
The trick for people with the 200 is to fit 1.7 rockers and they end up with a stouter setup than the 220.

Quote:

Those 13sec unopened 220kw XR8's, wonder how many were running Hurricane headers? I know the AUII XR8 that i bought the 220kw engine out of for my ex missus fairmont Ghia was running 13.8's with PH4006's. Not sure what Craig was running on his..

I think Craig once told me he had 4-1's, dunno the brand.

I thought one of the dudes (Whoosha maybe?) had standard headers and got into the 13's. But again, my memory is poor until something starts nudging it....

Even so, rock stock standard as Ford intended the 220's ran low 14's.
Hell, the the journos of the day were doing mid 14's, with a full tank of fuel and 2 people on board.

b2tf · 09-01-2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

The trick for people with the 200 is to fit 1.7 rockers and they and up with a stouter setup than the 220.

This is what my ute has - from factory too. Late build AU3 XR8 utes seemed to have been given 1.7 RR's, I have now owned 2 that had them.

Sox · 09-01-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

This is what my ute has - from factory too. Late build AU3 XR8 utes seemed to have been given 1.7 RR's, I have now owned 2 that had them.

Perhaps they were the 220, snuck in while no one was looking?
Does it have the engine oil cooler?

CRAIGAU3220 · 10-01-2012, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

I think Craig once told me he had 4-1's, dunno the brand.

Yes, Pacemaker PH4006.

Managed quite a few 13.7x with stock headers then once the pacemakers were fitted it hit the 13.7x more often and then after a final re-tune from Simon ended up with half a dozen 13.6x slips.............Couldn't get a 13.6 as often as liked just when air was good and brain was communicating well with feet and gear shifting arm.

A few years back John ex (CongoXR8) had a before and after dyno run when he had his Pacemaker PH4006's fitted and I think he picked up just over 10rwkw over the stock 220 headers.

Cheers, Craig.

XH5LWEPN · 10-01-2012, 02:01 AM

Great times Woosha, and Craig with stock headers.

I was almost positive the 3 13sec 220's i knew of over here were all running PH4006's. A 10rwkw gain from PH4006's alone over standard headers is massive.

I assume Hurricanes give the same gains over factory?

Grobbo · 09-01-2012, 02:24 PM

Well there you go. I think I read 'identical heads' and assumed that meant 'identical cams'.

Must've forgotten it was a pushrod... :-)

XH5LWEPN · 09-01-2012, 02:30 PM

The 200kw got the Crow 621339 cam, the 220kw got the 631338, if you look at the lift figures on Crows website (listings are for 1.6 rockers) you'll see that the 200kw definately wasnt running 1.6 rockers from factory. Both were fitted with 1.7's.

Sox · 09-01-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XH5LWEPN

The 200kw got the Crow 621339 cam, the 220kw got the 631338, if you look at the lift figures on Crows website (listings are for 1.6 rockers) you'll see that the 200kw definately wasnt running 1.6 rockers from factory. Both were fitted with 1.7's.

There you go.

Edit - I just searched on the 1.6/1.7 rocker issue, and it seems there's a fair amount of debate about it.
Are you certain of your info?
Some claim they have found 1.6 Crane rockers, with others 1.7 YT rockers, all apparently on 200kw engines.

crakrz · 09-01-2012, 03:36 PM

In the For Sale section a couple of weeks ago there was a guy selling his 621339 cam that he had purchased from crow. The label on the end of the box actually had part no. 621339 with 220kw underneath it.
It was in the picture.

This was my understanding also. 200kw 621338 with 1.6rr (some are 1.7's), 220kw and 250kw 621339 with 1.7's.
250kw variation was slightly retarded 3deg to soften the low rpm torque. There have been instances of original T3 owners finding 1.6's on their strokers too. The factory did some trial and errors 'on the fly' that's for sure.
-Craig

CRAIGAU3220 · 10-01-2012, 02:30 AM

Thanks Jeff, Yes as you know the 220 donk is a good effort from Tickford.

John did send me his before and after dyno sheet which i think is still in my old laptop somewhere?.............will try and fire it up tomorrow after work and see if I can retrieve it then post it up.

Craig.

XH5LWEPN · 10-01-2012, 02:32 AM

Thatd be great, hopefully its got torque on there too.

crakrz · 10-01-2012, 08:26 AM

I have a before and after dyno sheet of stock 220 headers then my 4001 Pacies, same day, same dyno at G&D. I will track it down out of the archives when I get a chance.

**Whoosha** · 10-01-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakrz

I have a before and after dyno sheet of stock 220 headers then my 4001 Pacies, same day, same dyno at G&D. I will track it down out of the archives when I get a chance.

I had about 2 weeks of dyno sheets as well as pages of arguments from the good ole days

for the CAI s and various tunes but they seem to have vanished from site when G&D was sold off , will see what I have on paper at home still