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The Bar For non Automotive Related Chat |
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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,324
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http://news.sky.com/story/1398597/co...t-to-singapore
Not again! Interesting so see what comes of this one. It was supposed to arrive at Singapore this morning. Hopefully everyone on this flight is ok. |
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#3 | ||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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Already conflicting reports coming out.
Some say wreckage was found early on, then govt officials are saying no wreckage has been found. Déjà vu anyone? |
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#4 | ||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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history repeats, again and again and again...
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I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,318
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Similar to that Air-France flight in 2009 I think. But on this occasion the Pilot tried to go around and over a monster storm, broke the plane up. Relatively small plane too, same one that landed on the Hudson. 2014 all I've seen is people crying at airports.
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#6 | ||
Isn't it obvious?
![]() Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in a world of idiots
Posts: 5,383
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one fair enough
two it aint a coincidence
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08 Strike G6E T. 10 Ergo G6E Sept 75 XB Falcon in mushroom beige, 3 on the tree 200cid for sale, offers in the teens |
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#7 | ||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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So an Aussie search plane thought they spotted wreckage, but that now seems to have been discredited.
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 5,414
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No surprises there, same thing happened with the MH370 SAR. Jumping the gun once again.
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2021 BMW M550i in Black Sapphire Metallic.
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#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 5,414
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2021 BMW M550i in Black Sapphire Metallic.
11.52 @ 120mph stock |
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#10 | ||
Regulator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,168
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So many plane crashes where a stall is the cause and totally avoidable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Ca...ays_Flight_708 as well as Air France and numerous others.
Tragic year in aviation. Of interest are the other aircraft at similar altitudes and near where the AirAsia plane made last contact, as well as flying past the area just minutes later.
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Regards Bobby Current Cars: 2000 AU2 Fairmont (2019-current) 2003 BA1 Falcon Divvy Van (2017-current) 2009 VW Mk6 Golf 118TSi (2020-current) Previous Cars: 2003 MCX10R Avalon VXi (2017-2020) 1995 EF1 Falcon GLi (2016-2019) 1997 XH2 Falcon Van OPT20 (2016-2019) 2006 BF Fairlane Ghia (2013-2018) 2001 AU3 Futura (2010-2013) 1996 EL Fairmont (2008-2010) 2004 BA XR6 (2005-2008) 2001 AU2 Forte (2005-2006) 1988 EA Fairmont Ghia (2003-2005) 1984 AR Telstar TX5 Ghia (2001-2005) |
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#11 | ||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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Bodies found in the water, amongst other wreckage.
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#12 | ||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Checking out soft furnishings....
Posts: 8,673
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They have found over 40 bodies now. Rest in peace to those that have perished. There could be survivors, stranger things have happened. I am definitely thankful that the families of the deceased can have closure.
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#13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,372
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I have read that some of the bodies did not have life jackets so the implication is that others did. So it is still possible there could be survivors however unlikely.
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#14 | ||
Call me dirt... Joe Dirt
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Back in Perth for good
Posts: 5,302
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Deepest sympathies to the families of the lost ones.
At least the wreckage has been found and hoping that answers can be found quickly. In this day and age, with all the technology we have available, tragedies like this surely are avoidable??
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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Perhaps the answer is too take pilots out of the equation ???
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#16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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They need to do something to make these aircraft unloseable, and if they do crash have something indestructable that ejects , floats and gives off a signal.
This stuff happens way to often. |
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#17 | ||
Regulator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,168
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The planes have outsmarted us.
There have been so many crashes where the plane if left alone would have recovered on its own but pilot input prevented this: AF447, AA587, Aeroflot 593, maybe even Air France 296. All Airbus planes too. Fly-by-wire still catches pilots off-guard. Very tragic loss of life & hopefully the boxes are found quickly.
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Regards Bobby Current Cars: 2000 AU2 Fairmont (2019-current) 2003 BA1 Falcon Divvy Van (2017-current) 2009 VW Mk6 Golf 118TSi (2020-current) Previous Cars: 2003 MCX10R Avalon VXi (2017-2020) 1995 EF1 Falcon GLi (2016-2019) 1997 XH2 Falcon Van OPT20 (2016-2019) 2006 BF Fairlane Ghia (2013-2018) 2001 AU3 Futura (2010-2013) 1996 EL Fairmont (2008-2010) 2004 BA XR6 (2005-2008) 2001 AU2 Forte (2005-2006) 1988 EA Fairmont Ghia (2003-2005) 1984 AR Telstar TX5 Ghia (2001-2005) |
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 5,414
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Quote:
The problem is CEO's of airline companies believe these things can fly themselves and pilots occupy seats 0A and 0B to appease the passengers. Give me a capable pilot to fly an aircraft over a computer anyday! Another Air Asia A320 was involved in an incident at Kalibo airport at Boracay, Philippines late this afternoon. Fortunately no major injuries sustained.
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2021 BMW M550i in Black Sapphire Metallic.
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#19 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,252
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Quote:
jp |
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#20 | |||
Moderator
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Location: Foothills of the Macedon Ranges
Posts: 18,528
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Quote:
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#21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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Hey, you want "dirt cheap and exotic" be careful what you wish for or you might just get it...
![]() I've heard that saying before, "If it ain't Boeing I ain't going" regarding Airbus's. ![]() |
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#22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,318
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Only a small debris field so far. Emergency door and planes slide are part of it.
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#23 | ||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Apparently the plane can be seen from the air, must not be that deep in that case. Means a fast salvage operation. Let's hope they recover most of the bodies.
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___________________________ I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more....... |
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#24 | ||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,046
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2014 has been a terrible year for aviation.
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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#25 | ||
N/A all the way
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,459
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Both Boeing and Airbus are amazingly safe planes. The pilots? I am not so sure. The amounts of crashes in scenarios where other planes just fly by in the same conditions in the Asian region is a bit scary. Adam Air, Air Asia, Garuda, Korean Air (Managed to crash land a perfect BOEING in perfect weather).......... Crashing on landing, runway overruns, they just seem to struggle when something out of the ordinary hits them.
Then you see the way the Qantas flight crew handled QF32, landing a crippled airframe, damaged by a Rolls Royce engine. I fly in the A380 very comfortable that it can survive major structural and hydraulic damage but still land when a 1st class flight crew is in charge.
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#26 | ||
wombat
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Broken Hill
Posts: 1,062
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Now they are slaying this year is one of the safest for aircraft since records have been kept
now I think the cost of finding and working out what went wrong might end up being one of the most expensive on record when the figure for the MH 370 costs finally come in
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BA Ford Fairmont with spot lights ECB full type 8 bar UHF radio , Life is full of experiences some good some bad and with luck they all balance out in the end What Ford s have I owned 1969 Blue wagon 1974 XB owned 3 of them Numerious others but I always went back to ford My first car was a 6 volt VW sedan |
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#27 | ||||
Regulator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,168
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Quote:
Quote:
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Regards Bobby Current Cars: 2000 AU2 Fairmont (2019-current) 2003 BA1 Falcon Divvy Van (2017-current) 2009 VW Mk6 Golf 118TSi (2020-current) Previous Cars: 2003 MCX10R Avalon VXi (2017-2020) 1995 EF1 Falcon GLi (2016-2019) 1997 XH2 Falcon Van OPT20 (2016-2019) 2006 BF Fairlane Ghia (2013-2018) 2001 AU3 Futura (2010-2013) 1996 EL Fairmont (2008-2010) 2004 BA XR6 (2005-2008) 2001 AU2 Forte (2005-2006) 1988 EA Fairmont Ghia (2003-2005) 1984 AR Telstar TX5 Ghia (2001-2005) |
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#28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,318
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From an aviation standpoint, probably is the safest era to be in a plane. That's if you consider how many are up there flying at any one time. Also needs to be mentioned, that the 2 bigger disasters this year, MH370 and the plane shot down over Ukraine (for arguments sake lets just say one was the actions of a rogue pilot/hijacker and the other complete incompetence) wern't exactly what we normally expect when a plane goes missing.
CEO`s of airline companies are just like many others. Its cheaper to pay compensation and fund a rescue party once every 10 years than implement and maintain new technology that allows us to track and locate you`re entire fleet in real-time. With MH370 I think they're hoping to find some Spanish Bullion in the process to help fund it, it could take decades. That 777 will look like a sesame-seed that far down,providing it's there. |
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#29 | |||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Enroute
Posts: 4,050
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Another tragedy. It seems however in this case the captain was very skilled and had a distinguished military career before commercial aviation.
There are a number of factors which all play a part in the loss of an aircraft. Until we know these factors there's no point in idle speculation, however historically we can see what has happened in the recent past such as AF447. The factors include: Prior training, recency of recurrent training, Cockpit Resource Managment (CRM, where all pilots work the problem), Human Factors, Cockpit environment and layout, Engineering limitations, Weather. First off, the engineering limitation of the pitot tube allowed icing causing the airspeed to drop out which disconnected the autopilot. Secondly the FFO (flying first officer) had little training, and very little recurrent training in type. Thirdly, the CRM was a debacle and the captain was not notified until late in the emergency, and the crew still hadn't diagnosed the stall, or even the cause of the stall. Fourth, Human factors was that the crew were slightly fatigued as it was late at night, and their respective previous duty time had meant they were working when ordinarily they would be asleep, which affected their ability to identify the problem in a quick enough manner. Fifth, cockpit layout and design was the biggest culprit in the cause of this accident. We know that the FFO, after losing the auto pilot basically panicked and pulled his control stick fully aft which caused the very high nose attitude, inducing the stall. The layout in all modern Airbus cockpits is such that as the FFO sits in the right seat, the stick is to his right and is obscured from view by others in the cockpit. The sticks for both the FFO and the NFFO are not linked to show inputs like in other aircraft. As such, the NFFO (non flying first officer) was not made aware of the FFO's control inputs until around 10,000 feet. Had this been a Boeing cockpit which has the two central control yokes which are linked, the NFFO would have identified the cause immediately as the controls being pulled too far back inducing the stall, and a full recovery would have been made early into the stall. In fact, the NTSB goes so far as to say that this design factor alone would have saved all the lives on board. Finally, the weather was the trigger to the event with icing, blocking the pitot tubes which were inadequate for traversing through such severe icing conditions (although the planes anti-ice was fine), causing the autopilot to drop out and gifting the FFO the panicked reaction which caused the planes demise. The above is just a description of how numerous factors can conspire to bring the worst possible outcome. Each factor on its own is completely survivable, however a bunch of them can collectively be too much. Until we know some more data on AirAsia we will otherwise only be speculating. Oh, and BTW, Asian carriers have questionable standards because of how they recruit pilots - in Australia, most airline pilots hail from either military where they earn thousands of hours, or GA where they have done thousands of hours in 30 plus year old aircraft. If they have survived either, chances are they have some skills. In Asia, a lot of juniors are recruited with minimal flying experience (300 hours or more) and are often put in as FO's. They do not have the depth of experience that their western counterparts have, and most have more sim time than flying time. Think Asiana Airlines, the woeful approach, the seawall and the 777.
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#30 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 5,414
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Great input ltd.
There's a lot of talk on PPRune as to what you've said (as well as the usual utter garbage) about P2F plus the lack of pilot training, not understanding VOR etc. Scary stuff indeed. On a positive note, Qantas have been voted the worlds safest airline ![]()
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2021 BMW M550i in Black Sapphire Metallic.
11.52 @ 120mph stock |
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