MD diesel: Dual mass flywheel?

AlanM · 07-04-2024, 06:59 PM

Couple of questions...

Does the diesel in Australia have a DMF, being an automatic? I kind of think probably not, most automatics don't really have any flywheel at all... although it IS a DCT...

But if it does, has anyone had to replace theirs? How many km can one be expected to last?

**russellw** · 08-04-2024, 08:51 AM

The MD Mondeo Diesel when fitted with the MPS6/6DCT450 transmission (and perhaps other transmissions as well) does have a DMF. In terms of their life expectancy, it can be anything from 160-300k and sometimes more and the DMF alone is likely to set you back $700+.

AlanM · 08-04-2024, 09:59 AM

Thanks, although not what I was hoping to hear!

With their water pumps, thermostat housings, EGR housings, rear shock absorbers, electric handbrakes, electric steering racks and now this, it seems the MD is just loaded with expensive time bombs!

Starting to wonder if it's worth keeping it. We have a really nice MC...

manchu · 09-04-2024, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanM

Couple of questions...

Does the diesel in Australia have a DMF,
.
.

But if it does, has anyone had to replace theirs?

MC diesel has DMF so I assume MD with DCT does too.

Mine was making some awful sounds recently but magically cleared up the next day. ~170,000km

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11499506

AlanM · 15-06-2024, 09:14 AM

On a bit more research, (and correct me if I'm wrong, information seems to be very thin on the ground) it seems that the MD has a DMF to replace the function of the damper springs in the DCT450.
The MD transmission is designated DCT451, and doesn't have the damper springs and plastic retainers that cause all the problems with the DCT450..

So eventually there will be a DMF to replace, but hopefully you avoid many of the transmission problems.

This might even be a positive trade-off!

AlCan · 15-06-2024, 11:53 AM

Hi Guys,

I'm new here - this is my first post (even though I joined a while back, but haven't had to ask much so far). Looks like that's gonna change...

I have a 2011 TDCi DCT Wagon, 259,000k's. Has had the dreaded (#1) clutch judder problem for a long time, but been living with it. Love the car despite this, and just bought a neglected 2013 Titanium TDCi DCT Hatchback cheap. It needs TLC, but the clutches & gearbox seem okay - what I focussed on when testing it...

Noticed that it (the whole car) vibrated a bit, but put it down to the RH engine mount being completely toast - "popped", cap half off, spitting oil everywhere, so didn't worry too much.

Later found that the vibrations varied a lot, depending on what side of bed it got out on. The next day, it vibrated like Hell! For a while I thought it might be a DMF issue but changing the mount fixed that.

Before I got hold of a used mount, did some research on the DMF question and found a heap of confusion out there, hence my question here. I got the new mount from a "Pull-it-yourself" wreckers yard, so got to see a lot more than just the Parts Counter. Found another 2013 (Auto of some sort), the engine was out, the trans gone, so got a good look at the flywheel. Definitely not a DMF, but quite thin to what I'd expect for a diesel. Have photo if anyone can tell me the best way to post it. It has an 8-position "dog" at the centre, that the DCT clutch pack (or Torque Converter?) obviously mates with, and this eliminated a lot of my concerns. Thought others would be interested to see it.

Anyway, my question - I can't figure out the MA, MB, MC etc marques. Nor can I figure out the engine designations but I'll ask that separately if necessary.

Can anyone tell me what the Mx designations mean, and when they change? My research seems to say year and/or body style, but if someone could clarify for me, that would be great. The Titanium seems to be a BA7 (if you believe our MV Registry data, a lot of which is wrong), and this just adds to my confusion.

All further comments welcome.

Cheers,
Al

Mondaveo · Yesterday, 03:09 PM

Hi Al, welcome to the forums

When I read your post I thought hey, there's some discussion I'll enjoy, but then a fortnight passed. Anyway, I hope this information is still useful to you regardless...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlCan

Anyway, my question - I can't figure out the MA, MB, MC etc marques. Nor can I figure out the engine designations but I'll ask that separately if necessary.

Can anyone tell me what the Mx designations mean, and when they change? My research seems to say year and/or body style, but if someone could clarify for me, that would be great. The Titanium seems to be a BA7 (if you believe our MV Registry data, a lot of which is wrong), and this just adds to my confusion.

I haven't got a source for reference here - Wikipedia is missing details, my Haynes manual doesn't go into enough depth and I notice that the Ford Au website has removed most information on models older than 2010, which is a shame - so this is just my understanding...

The third generation Mondeo built on the Volvo CD platform was launched in late 2006. In the UK and Europe they generally refer to it as the Mk4, while in Australia it was given the designation MA. MB was a minor refresh which I think came in 2008. I want to say that the MA launched with sedan and wagon bodystyles and the MB added the hatchback, but I'm not certain on that. Engines relevant to the Australian market were Duratec i4 NA petrol, Duratorq i4 turbo diesel (with Euro III and IV emissions controls) and i5 turbo petrol in the sports sedan sold here as the XR5.

MC was a significant update and facelift of the range which started being assembled in late 2010 for the 2011 MY (my own car is a Nov 2010 built but 2011 MY). In overseas markets they often call it the Mk4.5, or talk about FL (facelift) and preFL models. New drivetrains were also introduced, with the i4 turbo petrol Ecoboost replacing the Duratec NA petrol at most (non-base) trim levels, the Duratorq upgraded to Euro V, and the PowerShift DCT introduced for Ecoboost and diesel models, replacing conventional torque-converter automatic transmissions except for with the Duratec. The sedan was also discontinued, which along with the new engines saw the end of the XR5. Note that although the new drivetrains were effectively introduced with the MC, some MBs toward the end of production were built with the new running gear, so you can sometimes find an MB with the PowerShift DCT.

And then the new generation model (fourth generation or Mk5) came in around 2014, eventually coming to Australia as the MD Mondeo in 2015. It is a completely different platform to the MA/MB/MC although carries over the Ecoboost and Duratorq engines (but dials back on the DCT to only be fitted to the turbo-diesel, going back to torque converter for petrol Ecoboosts).

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlCan

Have photo if anyone can tell me the best way to post it.

I'm certainly interested to see. You can attach pictures directly to your posts on this forum, however you are only given a very small amount of storage space (which private messages also consume) so it will fill up your quota very quickly if you try to use it to post images.

There are some image-hosting services you can sign up to - Photobucket used to be the one from waaay back in the day - but the free tiers are not the most reliable. YMMV, I haven't looked into them since forever.

Since these days I do 99% of my online activity out of my Android smartphone, and my photos are being backed up to Google anyway, I host images and content I want to share out of my Google account. In Google Photos you can create a Shared or public album. You can then post the link to the album (or individual photos), like so:

https://goo.gl/photos/iyjqAb6LkiiVLYJZ9

If I want to embed images in a forum post, I first use an image resizer app on my smartphone to reduce the images to (say) 800 or 1024 pixels, so that I'm not embedding multiple megapixels of photo which will appear very large on the forum. The tricky part then is you need to copy the image source URL (not the link to the image in the album) to put into the post wrapped in [IMG][/IMG] tags. You have to view the image in the browser (not Google Photos app) and open the context menu by right-clicking (on desktop) or press-and-long-hold (on mobile) on the image and selecting the option like "Copy image location" or "Open image in new tab". The URL you obtain should be like googleusercontent.com as opposed to photos.google.com.

Example:

When I view this image in Google Photos the URL is
https://photos.google.com/u/2/share/...RaN0xnVnhwT3l3

But to put it inline in a post, I need to get the URL to the raw image which is https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-gm?authuser=2

If you instead use Apple Cloud, or have Instagram or other services like that, I'm sure you can do similar.

Anyway, hope that helps! Does that help? I hope it helps, but I'm not sure if it does...

AlanM · Yesterday, 04:41 PM

I've had a look at the "flywheel" fitted to DCT450 equipped cars too. Just pulled out the transmission on a Kuga. (Avoid THAT job if you can!)

Yeah, there's really no flywheel, similarly to normal automatic transmissions except the torque converter doesn't bolt on, it just dogs in. Makes at least that part of the job easier, I'm hoping putting the box back in isn't a problem.

I guess the damper springs replaces the damping function of the flywheel.

From talking to an expert on these transmissions, the shuddering is likely a symptom of the damper springs' plastic retainers breaking up, which eventually sees plastic fragments finding their way into the valve body. I'm not sure how they get through the internal filter, but they definitely do.

If you're keen and have a spare day, you can pull the valve body out and clean out the plastic bits. It might fix the shuddering for a while. The Kuga I'm working on had a bit jammed in a small plastic orifice inside the valve body, and another piece in one of the clutch pressure control valves. It was giving a fairly violent clutch engagement moving off in first.

Anyway good luck with the cars, they are nice to drive.

Attached a photo of the blocked orifice. It's about 0.5mm.

AlCan · Yesterday, 08:57 PM

Hi Mondaveo, AlanM,

Thanks to you both for your replies. You guys are Awesome!

Yes, Mondaveo, that info is very helpful, thanks. Yours too AlanM. I'll take up that question re plastic bits later.

This is only a quick reply as it's getting late here, but both Mondeos have had to take a backseat for the time being. I will have to do some work re posting photos, but I have a bunch of them now that I imagine people would like to see - taken during my trip to the wreckers yard. I always wondered where the oil pressure switch was, likewise the thermostat - but I gather there might be two???

Unfortunately, they take the plates and VINs off cars being wrecked, so it's hard to identify what exactly they are, but the one I photographed was reportedly a 2013. I only went for the engine mount but it expanded into a photo session. Just didn't get as far as checking to see if the shift lever was still in place or if it was a Powershift, but I think it had to be. I don't know if they sold any manual trans models here in NZ, but I have yet to see one.

Anyway, time's up. You know...

Later Guys,
Al